Will upgrading from 8.4 lipo to 9.6 NIMH increase my FPS?

 
L3wisD said:
By all means.

Bung a Prometheus EG 6.03 Barrel in it (choosing the right length for your gun):

https://eagle6.co.uk/shop/catalog/product/view/id/890/s/laylax-prometheus-6-03mm-eg-inner-barrel-247mm/

Change your rubber to a Prometheus Purple

https://eagle6.co.uk/shop/catalog/product/view/id/318/s/laylax-prometheus-hop-up-rubber-nub-soft-purple/

And the hop up to a Prowin:

http://airsoftzone.co.uk/hop-up-chambers-and-rubbers/cnc-m4-hop-up-chamber-for-marui-type-aeg-prowin

And you'll be laughing.
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The barrel i have in is a stainless steel 6.03, what makes that one better bud?

 
Most definitely the build quality of the barrel.

Just because the material and the dimensions are the same, doesn't mean they are equal.

You're a motorcyclist, so it's like saying a zhangdong CG125 clone is equal to a proper Honda CG125, if that makes sense.

As Hangtight says, I'd bet my testicles that the Prometheus is a whole lot smoother and much better engineered than the Nuprol equivalent. 

You'll notice an increase in accuracy and range over the stock barrel in any case.

 
L3wisD said:
Most definitely the build quality of the barrel.

Just because the material and the dimensions are the same, doesn't mean they are equal.

You're a motorcyclist, so it's like saying a zhangdong CG125 clone is equal to a proper Honda CG125, if that makes sense.

As Hangtight says, I'd bet my testicles that the Prometheus is a whole lot smoother and much better engineered than the Nuprol equivalent. 

You'll notice an increase in accuracy and range over the stock barrel in any case.
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Ill look into it and see if it would be a cost effective upgrade, cheers

 
I wouldn't say it's cost effective, depending on the length of the barrel you need, it could be £55+ which is going to be 25% of the cost of your gun which can be hard to justify.

I'd say Start with the hop up rubber, as the Prometheus Purple will be a very noticeable upgrade compared to the standard Nuprol.

Then try the prowin chamber.

If you don't notice much of a difference between the prowin and the standard chamber, you can still sell the Prowin on second hand and not lose too much on it. Then you're only down £10-12 on the rubber.

 
Unless the original barrel is tragically crap, then you are far better off spending your money elsewhere. Although in this case the barrel the Defender comes with is a tragically crap '6.03`( possibly, in places) aluminium tube.

Not quite sure what is going on if you've seen a doubling in your rate of fire going from 7.4v lipo to 9.6v NiMh. The 9.6v may offer fractionally higher ROF when fully charged, but it soon sags and is comprehensively outperformed by the lipo.

Crane stocks are make by the thousands and are cheap. That's why your Nuprol has one, not because it was designed around the fact the stock is a good fit around a NiMh battery.

 
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Back to the battery. All batteries have a C rating. That means it can give a current of C rating times capacity. For example an 1000mAh battery with a C rating of 25 gives 1000*25mA = 25A on its nominal voltage. Higher voltage, higher ROF.

But if the motor (and setup) you have in the gun needs more current, then the voltage drops. So if your gun needs 35A to run with a good fps, the voltage will drop a lot, possibly so low that the motor doesn't even start. If the voltage can still turn the motor then on a very low FPS. Quite probably that's what you experienced.

Sorry if this has been answered already, I just skimmed the latest posts.

 
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Even a 1200 mAh 7.4v lipo would need a C rating lower than a asthmatic hamster on an exercise bike to drop the of fire that far...

 
Bad wiring, bad shimming and or upgraded motor or some other reason of increased load can result insufficient current -> voltage drop.

 
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Samurai said:
Bad wiring, bad shimming and or upgraded motor or some other reason of increased load can result insufficient current -> voltage drop.
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Its all stock internals, i don't think the stock high torque motor requires a lot of current, i know the high speed motors demand a lot more, i think its just the higher voltage spinning the motor faster, its a 1600mah 10C 9.6v battery so i reckon the motor doesn't require too much current to operate. I was mainly just concerned the extra voltage may cause an FPS increase, i chrono'd recently at 348fps so pretty close to the limit lol.

 
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A 1600mAh NiMh might have 9.6(ish)v if you check it with  meter, but as soon as you put a load on it EG pull the trigger, that voltage will sag to equal or less than a 7.4v lipo, and that sag will get worse as it discharges. Hence the reason some of us are having trouble getting our heads around the idea that going from lipo to NiMh has made a significant difference. Unless your lipo batteries were faulty in the first place.

 
Why not post some pics of the 2 batteries so that we can see what you are using?

 
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Thanks that helps us all to see what you are talking about.

I have used both NiMh and LiPo batteries now for a good number of years, both in airsoft and Radio Control vehicles.

In my opinion either of those LiPo batteries should out perform or at least equal the NiMh battery in the pics. Although Nuprol would probably not be my first choice for LiPos.

I get my batteries from here:

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/batteries/airsoft/li-po-packs/74v.html

I am using these at the moment which are superb quality and value for money.  https://www.componentshop.co.uk/7-4v-2000mah-20c-continuous-discharge-airsoft-lipo-split-pack.html

I would never use a company that produce lots of different airsoft gear, like Nuprol, for batteries. They probably buy them in as cheaply as possible before branding them as Nuprol, meaning there is no guarantee of quality.

I would always recommend using a company that specialise in batteries primarily and has built a reputation selling them, as the production quality of batteries can vary wildly, and price is not always a sign of quality.  A good battery does not have to cost the earth, but a bad one might cost you a lot.

Not all LiPo batteries are equal even if they say on the outside that they are.  How you look after them can affect the performance too.

A couple more questions.

How are you charging the the LiPos, what charger? what settings on the charger? again pics could help.

 
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scalawag said:
Thanks that helps us all to see what you are talking about.

I have used both NiMh and LiPo batteries now for a good number of years, both in airsoft and Radio Control vehicles.

In my opinion either of those LiPo batteries should out perform the NiMh battery in the pics. Although Nuprol would probably not be my first choice for LiPos.

I get my batteries from here:

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/batteries/airsoft/li-po-packs/74v.html

I am using these at the moment which are superb quality and value for money.  https://www.componentshop.co.uk/7-4v-2000mah-20c-continuous-discharge-airsoft-lipo-split-pack.html

I would never use a company that produce lots of different airsoft gear like Nuprol for batteries. They probably buy them in as cheaply as possible before branding them as Nuprol, meaning there is no guarantee of quality.

I would always recommend using a company that specialise in batteries primarily and has built a reputation selling them, as the production quality of batteries can vary wildly, and price is not always a sign of quality.  A good battery does not have to cost the earth, but a bad one might cost you a lot. Not all LiPo batteries are equal.

A couple more questions.

How are you charging the the LiPos, what charger? what settings on the charger? again pics could help.
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Using the nuprol lipo3 charger, got it cheap as got it with the gun so can't complain. Think i got it for about a tenner.

View attachment 31386

 
Some smart chargers like the one you have are ok, but they don't allow you much control over how the battery is being charged, and they usually don't have the ability to discharge or cycle (fully discharge and then recharge) a battery which is not necessarily needed for LiPos but can help keep them at peak performance.  

For me the go to charger for any type of battery is really the iMax B6 or any of the clones of it that are about.  I use the Turnigy Accucel 6 which is really just a clone of the Imax B6.  Google iMax B6 and you should find one at a reasonable price, you can even buy them on amazon.  Just be aware that the cheaper ones may also need an external power source to run them but you can also buy versions with a built in power supply

You will have to learn how to use it, but your batteries will thank you for it.

Back to your LiPo performance issues, I would think that given the batteries in question and the charger you have been using that your LiPo batteries are knackered, and not providing anywhere near the performance that they should.

I think, in common with what others have already said, you will find that the NiMh battery will perform well when fully charged but will quickly start to loose performance as you use it.  Thats not to say you couldn't use it, they have been used quite happily in airsoft for years and still are by lots of people.

I would suggest a new charger though, whichever type of battery you decide to use. The B6 type chargers will also allow you a lot more control over how you charge and/or discharge NiMh too.

 
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scalawag said:
Some smart chargers like the one you have are ok, but they don't allow you much control over how the battery is being charged, and they usually don't have the ability to discharge or cycle (fully discharge and then recharge) a battery which is not necessarily needed for LiPos but can help keep them at peak performance.  

For me the go to charger for any type of battery is really the iMax B6 or any of the clones of it that are about.  I use the Turnigy Accucel 6 which is really just a clone of the Imax B6.  Google it and you should find one at a reasonable price, you can even buy them on amazon.  Just be aware that the cheaper ones may also need an external power source to run them but you can also buy versions with a built in power supply

You will have to learn how to use it, but your batteries will thank you for it.

Back to your LiPo performance issues, I would think that given the batteries in question and the charger you have been using that your LiPo batteries are knackered, and not providing anywhere near the performance that they should.

I think, in common with what others have already said, you will find that the NiMh battery will perform well when fully charged but will quickly start to loose performance as you use it.  Thats not to say you couldn't use it, they have been used quite happily in airsoft for years and still are by lots of people.

I would suggest a new charger though, whichever type of battery you decide to use. The B6 type chargers will also allow you a lot more control over how you charge and/or discharge NiMh too.
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I don't think my batteries are buggered, that nun chuck lipo is only 5-6 games old, i just think the motor doesn't draw enough current to cause issue with the NiMH, they were advertised as 10c but the cells are actually 15c so that's a peak output of 24A? That would be a lot of current for such a small motor, a lot of brushed motor drills don't even draw that and they're 5-6 times the size , i think its just working overtime from the voltage increase on the NiMH, seems to be working well for now, ill report back after the next game for a proper performance comparison.

 
Well looking at both of the LiPos they have a peak output in excess of what you are saying The NiMh battery has ( 1300mAh has 20c 26A constant output and can supply 40c 52A peak the 1450mAh is rated even higher).  The NiMh batteries voltage output will drop noticably under load, the LiPo much less so and certainly not so that you would notice it.  Over all these LiPos should provide performance equivalent to, or slightly better than the NiMh that you have pictured.  If the LiPos aren't doing that then that strongly suggests that they are faulty in some way.  Their age or previous use is not necessarily an indicator of the health of the battery.

Knowing a bit about how these different battery chemistries work, and discharge their stored power is essential to understanding why a 7.4v battery can deliver similar or better performance to a 9.6v battery.

You might find this site an interesting read:  http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/

People usually move from NiMh to LiPo, presumably because of the performance improvement, but hey what ever works for you.

Good luck with your testing.

 
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L3wisD said:
By all means.

Bung a Prometheus EG 6.03 Barrel in it (choosing the right length for your gun):

https://eagle6.co.uk/shop/catalog/product/view/id/890/s/laylax-prometheus-6-03mm-eg-inner-barrel-247mm/

Change your rubber to a Prometheus Purple

https://eagle6.co.uk/shop/catalog/product/view/id/318/s/laylax-prometheus-hop-up-rubber-nub-soft-purple/

And the hop up to a Prowin:

http://airsoftzone.co.uk/hop-up-chambers-and-rubbers/cnc-m4-hop-up-chamber-for-marui-type-aeg-prowin

And you'll be laughing.
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Looking at the rubber, what is the nub for?

 
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