where do i stand??

Robotic · Sep 22, 2012

hello all...

registered here just to have something explained nicely - i understand ukara and the vcra but...

i have a couple of bb guns that i have owned since the 90s, now i believe they are known as realistic imitations.

im not breaking any laws owning them?? am i... :blink:

as long as im not running around shooting children everythings cool? right?

ukara + vcra only apply to buying a gun NOW....

partner thinks were gonna go jail or something :lol:

simple feedback appreciated

RR01 · Sep 22, 2012

Robotic said:
hello all...
registered here just to have something explained nicely - i understand ukara and the vcra but...

i have a couple of bb guns that i have owned since the 90s, now i believe they are known as realistic imitations.

im not breaking any laws owning them?? am i... :blink:

as long as im not running around shooting children everythings cool? right?

ukara + vcra only apply to buying a gun NOW....

partner thinks were gonna go jail or something :lol:

simple feedback appreciated

The VCRA did not ban ownership, unlike when they took away our Real Steel pistols.

If you bought them before the VCRA came in, then you are perfectly entitled to own and keep them. You can even sell them on to someone over 18, but there the VCRA restrictions kick in and mean you cannot sell them to anyone who cannot avail themselves of one of the specific defences allowed under the Act. However, you can ONLY sell; you cannot swap with someone. To be able to swap means you would need to avail yourself of the specific defences to acquire the new BB gun and, as presumably you are neither a registered skirmisher, film company, re-enactor or a Crown Servant acting in furtherance of your work, you would not be able to claim one of the specific defences and could therefore open yourself to the full force of the law.

So feel free to hang on to them if you wish, but if you decide to sell, then you can only do so to someone who can legally purchase them, so get their details, site membership number, etc. and check with the site or with UKARA via a Retailer before you part with the guns.

Grounded_Pilot · Sep 22, 2012

RR01 said:
The VCRA did not ban ownership, unlike when they took away our Real Steel pistols.
If you bought them before the VCRA came in, then you are perfectly entitled to own and keep them. You can even sell them on to someone over 18, but there the VCRA restrictions kick in and mean you cannot sell them to anyone who cannot avail themselves of one of the specific defences allowed under the Act. However, you can ONLY sell; you cannot swap with someone. To be able to swap means you would need to avail yourself of the specific defences to acquire the new BB gun and, as presumably you are neither a registered skirmisher, film company, re-enactor or a Crown Servant acting in furtherance of your work, you would not be able to claim one of the specific defences and could therefore open yourself to the full force of the law.

So feel free to hang on to them if you wish, but if you decide to sell, then you can only do so to someone who can legally purchase them, so get their details, site membership number, etc. and check with the site or with UKARA via a Retailer before you part with the guns.

RR01, you sir are a wonderful user.

Indeed, all is correct.

On the 1st of October 2007, the VCRA banned the sales of RIFs to those without a valid skirmisher, re-enactor or movie prop use, etc.

The ownership of these rifles is perfectly legal, as it is also legal for a 15 y/o to own a RIF it gifted to him/her by someone who has a defense.

Although, I highlighted on part... I read an FAQ about who can own a rifle. One was "I am a serving/Ex service member of the armed forces, can I buy a RIF?"

The answer was: No. You must be a valid skirmisher or one of the other selections..."

However I may just be interpreting what you posted wrong!

ScoobySnacks · Sep 22, 2012

Grounded_Pilot said:
RR01, you sir are a wonderful user.
Indeed, all is correct.

On the 1st of October 2007, the VCRA banned the sales of RIFs to those without a valid skirmisher, re-enactor or movie prop use, etc.

The ownership of these rifles is perfectly legal, as it is also legal for a 15 y/o to own a RIF it gifted to him/her by someone who has a defense.

Although, I highlighted on part... I read an FAQ about who can own a rifle. One was "I am a serving/Ex service member of the armed forces, can I buy a RIF?"

The answer was: No. You must be a valid skirmisher or one of the other selections..."

However I may just be interpreting what you posted wrong!

Anyone can OWN a RIF.

There is no law regarding possessing them (absent any aggravating offense, such as using them to threaten or commit crime, or carrying them uncovered in a public place where you don't have a reasonable excuse to have them uncovered).

The offence requires the sale or "manufacturing" (in inverted commas because this includes altering an IF in such a way that it ceases to be an IF and becomes an RIF, such as reducing the amount of bright colour to below 50%) of an RIF, and it is the person doing the selling, or manufacturing, who commits the offence.

It is NOT an offence to purchase an RIF, it is the person who sells the gun that commits the offence.

It is up to them to satisfy themselves that the person seeking to buy an RIF can provide them with a valid defence against a charge under the VCRA.

UKARA is only one of many ways of providing this defence. Membership (or booked days) at a site that has public liability insurance for such events is sufficient to provide a defence, but most people like UKARA as it is easy to check.

So the question is not "can I buy one" but "do I have enough proof of a valid defence to convince the person I'm asking to risk prosecution by selling one to me".

Alexb111 · Sep 23, 2012

The temptation to put "Where you stand depends upon where you sit" in response to the topic title is too much

Anyway the only laws on OWNERSHIP is the age limits on RIF's and 2tone guns such as over 14's I think it was. There is no other laws except you should be able to provide a valid defence if questioned. - This is the law, UKARA is separate and simply a recognised way of providing a skirmishing defence.

To be honest if you say they were bought before the act the worst the police will probably do is seize the guns until its worked out by lawyers and legal people. As long as your co-operative if questioned and don't do stupid things like go out into public with them you should be fine anyway, the chance of being questioned is really low.

Though if your ever stopped and have them in your car or the police come to your house the first words after hello should be: I have replica (toy is a good word) firearms in the house/car and then tell them the exact location so the police can if they wish look at them.

If you or your partner is still worried just go down to the local station (without the guns obviously

) and talk to the police there, they should be more than happy to help as long as its obvious your a 'good person' and wanting to stay on the right side of the law. - The police may have to look it up themselves but at the end of the day its better to be sure..

RR01 · Sep 23, 2012

Grounded_Pilot said:
Indeed, all is correct.
Although, I highlighted on part... I read an FAQ about who can own a rifle. One was "I am a serving/Ex service member of the armed forces, can I buy a RIF?"

The answer was: No. You must be a valid skirmisher or one of the other selections..."

However I may just be interpreting what you posted wrong!

That is why I put "Crown Servant acting in furtherance of your work". If a serving soldier wanted one to use for demonstration or other purposes as part of their duties in HM Forces then the purchase would be perfectly legal. Buying one just to play around at home would not be unless they could avail themselves of any of the other defences.

Grounded_Pilot · Sep 23, 2012

RR01 said:
That is why I put "Crown Servant acting in furtherance of your work". If a serving soldier wanted one to use for demonstration or other purposes as part of their duties in HM Forces then the purchase would be perfectly legal. Buying one just to play around at home would not be unless they could avail themselves of any of the other defences.

Ah lovely. That's a good example!