UKARA Number

[Tackle]

this, like most ukara based threads is going way off topic as usual, lets get back on topic & continue to roast the spacker that started it ?, who probably isn't even old enough to buy a two-tone.

 

[Druid799]

Screw you lot going on about gaming on your commodore 64’s and you amiga’s I’m so old My first console was a brick ! you wanna try playing pong with your older brother with one of those , first game I played I woke up in intensive care on a ventilator !?

 

[Tommikka]

I was specifically talking about UKARA not the VCRA in an attempt to show it's limitations, maybe I failed.

Is UKARA even mentioned in the VCRA as an acceptable defence actually? As I can't find direct reference. 

No.  UKARA isn’t in any of the legislation, it’s an industry scheme to fulfil a defence to show that the intended use is airsoft skirmishing at insured sites

The VCRA doesn’t have airsoft as a valid defence either, only the following:

2)Those purposes are—



(a)the purposes of a museum or gallery;



(b)the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;



(c)the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);



(d)the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);



(e)the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State;



(f)the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty.

But the VCRA does allow the Secretary of State to add other defences.  The skirmisher Defence is provided by the SoS by Statutory Instrument and not direct VCRA legislation, and that also does not specify the UKARA as a legal requirement 

5)The power of the Secretary of State to make regulations under subsection (3) shall be exercisable by statutory instrument subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.



(6)That power includes power—



(a)to make different provision for different cases;



(b)to make provision subject to such exemptions and exceptions as the Secretary of State thinks fit; and



(c)to make such incidental, supplemental, consequential and transitional provision as he thinks fit.

 

[Immortal]

Thing is your UKARA is normally the site membership number and that's the defence is it not? To show you're an active member of a Skirmish site and therefore have a legitimate reason for owning and transporting RIFs (to the site & home etc).

The fact that the number is also a green light for shops is a bonus and simplifies having multiple numbers for each (even though you can have multiple active UKARA numbers and site memberships).

Regarding my above quoted reply; if I am wrong could someone tell me what my defence is? 

In a nutshell I thought the site membership was the defence? Not the UKARA number itself.

Please, no jargon! Just simple stuff so I can understand as I clearly haven't.

No issue being told I am wrong but I'd like to know what the answer is.

 

[kasaran]

I was under the impression defence could be as simple as 'i know the guy.  He plays airsoft.  I have played with them x times' ?

 

[Rogerborg]

if I am wrong could someone tell me what my defence is?

As a seller?

It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence [of selling a RIF] in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of: the purposes of a museum or gallery; the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances; the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act); the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act); the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State; the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty; the organisation and holding of permitted activities for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of those activities[*]; the purposes of display at a permitted event.

For the purposes of this [defence] a person shall be taken to have shown a matter specified [above] if: sufficient evidence of that matter is adduced to raise an issue with respect to it; and the contrary is not proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

[*]Which may mean the organisation and holding of airsoft skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities”, depending if the Home Office today believes what the Home Office of 2007 believed.

I know that's tl;dr and not what you were looking for, but that is what your defence is.

The pickle is that "for the purposes of" speaks to future intent rather than past behaviour, and that the onus is on you to "show sufficient evidence" of it.  To me, that means a future booking to play airsoft at a skirmish site which has (or claims to have) third party insurance.

However, the Home Office circular only refers to "members of a genuine skirmishing club or site" (using essentially the UKARA system) as a defence.

Absent case law on a successfully defended prosecution, we don't don't what a court will and won't accept.

 

[jcheeseright]

Regarding my above quoted reply; if I am wrong could someone tell me what my defence is? 

In a nutshell I thought the site membership was the defence? Not the UKARA number itself.

Please, no jargon! Just simple stuff so I can understand as I clearly haven't.

No issue being told I am wrong but I'd like to know what the answer is.

You provide the seller with a defence by proving to them that you're a site member.  You don't need to defend yourself since buying a gun isn't a crime, selling one is. 

Weird distinction I know, but the myth of "my defence" has been going around far too long. 

 

[Immortal]

You provide the seller with a defence by proving to them that you're a site member.  You don't need to defend yourself since buying a gun isn't a crime, selling one is. 

Weird distinction I know, but the myth of "my defence" has been going around far too long. 

Thank you for clarifying for me. All this time I have misunderstood. My own edition of fake news stops here.... :lol:

 

[Rogerborg]

I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but in practical terms it's easier to police a few sellers than many buyers.

 

[Immortal]

I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but in practical terms it's easier to police a few sellers than many buyers.

That's the bit I had misunderstood as I thought it was visa versa. ?

 

[Tommikka]

That's the bit I had misunderstood as I thought it was visa versa. ?

Unless you’re importing of course !!!!

The section 36 offences are 


36Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms




(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—



(a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;



(b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;



(c)he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or



(d)he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

Retailers and private sellers are concerned with 36.1.c

Buyers/players could be concerned with a,b & d

A foreign seller would not be subject to prosecution under 36.1.d but the importing buyer could be 

 

[Immortal]

 

[Tommikka]

NERF is exempt