To prove a point to a moronic mate: Are AKs ergonomic?

[M_P]

may I point out that some of us don't mind getting our mags dirty! I dropped 2 g36 pmags in a mud puddle after using the quick mag release on my SRC g36 for a quick reload.

Having to clean out all the mud and rubbish out of your mags before re-using them isn't helpful. I'd rather not run dirty ammo through my guns.

I find taking an AR off auto a pain but, I find it's not needed much ever anyway so doesn't matter.

I personally believe an M4 to be more ergonomic due to its comfort of use. However it's justifiable for someone who is more comfortable witth an AK to say the opposite.

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Who keeps making the vote go the wrong way?! D=

 

[SheriffHD]

Ok, well this is a debatable subject it seems.

for me an ergonomic rifle is one that has the fewest working parts, the less chance of going wrong, and the easiest to use out the box.

AK - world known as a reliable rifle, Simple action, few moving parts to fuck about with.

M4 - a brilliant rifle, very modular design, and designed for shooter efficiency, but lots of parts that need to be maintained for it to work.

Now, the M4 is the better rifle for combat, can be suited to an individuals needs at a moments notice, but, there is alot more that can go wrong with it.

The Ak, has less parts to go wrong, but they are not the most accurate weapon on the market.

Now as you asked you what rifle was the most ergonomic, it depends on the use you intend for the rifle.
If you are to supply an army of highly trained men, with a section of trained armorers to maintain the weapons, the M4 is the more ergonomic choice.

If you are looking to supply a army of untrained/little trained men as a militia force, that has no trained armorers to maintain the weapons, than the AK is the most ergonomic rifle.

You are asking a question that isnt absolute, but rather a question that is subject to intention of use.

So, yes.
The AK is an ergonomic rifle.

 

[dazzer306]

Its 50/50 for me as I own both AK and M4. Both have nice ergonomic pistol grips which fit nice into my hands. One has left handed selector other has right handed either way I don't have to remove my hand from pistol grip it's about improvise and adapt. Both have a RIS so fore grip position no prob they both have sight rails still no prob. As for mag change either weapon you got to hold it with one hand and change mag with the other. Both have front and rear sling mounts.

So if this just a poll about fire selector being on right side of an AK then that's depends on if your right or left handed, same to be said for M4

G36 is best for right and left handed people as fire and charging handle can easily be use by both

 

[Rayzor_nippler]

i would have to say m4 due to it being a newer design evey thing is with in reaching distance the bolt does'nt need racking when a new mag is put in just a button push , the mag's are a square that fits a square mag well (does not need hooking in like the ak does) but just my opinion does not mean i'm right

 

[Finius]

Well this has worked out exactly how Ed wanted it...

 

[two_zero]

The poll is slowing coming around ^_^

Come on people, only 4 more to secure victory.

wouldn't say the current poll result proves anyone to be a moron

But I guess as with anything when it comes to M4 and AK, it's down to opinion.

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

<_<

 

[SheriffHD]

its down to what you need from a rifle.

If you wanted to kill a target at range, you would use a .338 or a .50 and not a .22.

a rifle that is ergonomic is a rifle that makes the user the most efficient.

So asking what rifle is the most efficient, you first need to say what is it you are trying to do.

 

[two_zero]

I'd go for a precision .22 magnum any day over a diy .50^^ but yes.

 

[SheriffHD]

well, 100m or less a .22 is perfect, nice and quiet.

5.56 up to 500.

7.62 upto 1000m

.338 or .50 for 1km +

Then the rifle of choice will then depend if I want full or semi, loud of silent etc.

CQB stealthy, .22 MP5SD, very quiet no worries about over penitration.
urban open conflict 5.56
Urban open conflict DMR 7.62
open fields/jungle 7.62

Counter sniper/light vehicle .50
F-you and every one around you, well then Id use one of these.
(Pst, the .50 is on the right.)

 

[two_zero]

again, the calibre on its own wont do much good if the rifle is rubbish^^

plus its been argued that 5.56 isn't all that good due to over penetration, hence the recent development of new 9mm.. anyway, this is going way off topic.

 

[M_P]

Is that one of those Ansio things?

 

[SheriffHD]

Yes we do indeed digress

The concept is still the same though, and I'll repeat it again, A rifle Is only as ergonomic as the use you intend for it.

 

[200rabbits]

I think AK mag reloads are a lot easier, a tiny bit slower on the speed reloads, but easier. You don't need to get the mag all precisely lined up to insert it, just hook it on and hinge it back, and then they lock in nice and secure, none of this "Did I push it up far enough?" business. Probably why HK like the rock 'n' lock as well, though they still make you deal with a well.

Maybe it's because I have big hands, but I quickly adapted to the AK fire select, very easy to operate with your middle finger, it's easy enough to push down on the ridge of the arm to push one into a firing position, and even if your fingers are too weak for that, lots of the countries which make their own AK variants make fire select levers with a second plate above the trigger for easier operation.
Also think about russian combat doctrine. When things look like they might get nasty, you slam it down into semi, move your hand to the grip, and just leave your hand and the fire select where they are, because contrary to popular belief, the Russians also think that only Americans would use automatic fire.

"America and Rest-of-the-world" SA80 family fire select

Auto is at the top, because if you're in a hurry, you're in a hurry, and you'll slam that lever down, and get semi, which is what you need, you have to think and be careful to put it in auto, which is what you should be doing while using it in auto. The AK fire select will protect what precious ammo is left in your midcap when you're in a panic.
I actually think it's a great feature of the AK how the fire select lever is placed, because unlike with ARs, L85s, G3s and G36s I have yet to accidentally change the fire select to a different setting mid battle.
If you want to see a genuinely stupid fire select, check out the ОЦ-14 (OTs/OC depending on whether or not you're looking for it in the library of congress ¬_¬) Think about how to operate that below your ear.

As for charging it and the lever location, it's a simple design. You get a charging handle, forward assist, and ejection port thingamy all in one robust simple part. You have to learn a different drill to charge it, to turn the gun on it's side and reach over, but it's the price you pay for having a gun that will fire every time you pull the trigger. In 1947. And 1959 and 1974.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Let's not forget Kalashnikov's own ideas about ergonomics also - the rifle must be able to withstand anything a Russian can, including not being cleaned; but eventually carbon deposits must interfere with operation, so the cleaning rod will be on the rifle where you can't easily lose it...

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Let us pretend for a few minutes that I actually said, "Is the AK more ergonomic(?) than the M4?"

Because that is what I meant, or at least intended for everyone to assume I meant.

Now everyone revote...

 

[Tariq]

Still going to keep the vote YES for me. Although the M4 is close.

(I'm just going to avoid using the term "ergonomics" from now on since it's being miss-used everywhere )

It's all about training. I'm more comforable, and QUICKER with an AK than a AR. Just because i've used one longer than i have with my 416.

G36 wins if it were in question though.

 

[Ian_Gere]

For a re-vote, Ed, I'd need a 3rd option: "not much in it".

 

[Rock-climby-Dave]

alrighty then ladies, seeing as we've missed the point somewhat:

To start with this isn't a debate between 2 items (M4 VS AK) this is PURELY about the AK, as such I will be taking it as it's own entity and trying to avoid comparing it to anything else.

Define: Ergonomic
(esp. of workplace design) Intended to provide optimum comfort and to avoid stress or injury.

From the back forwards:

The butt plate is metal. Metal is hard. hard object hitting your shoulder, not comfy. Poor ergonomics

The stock cannot be adjusted to suit the user. Poor ergonomics.

Pistol Grip is not textured, nor has any strange lumps on it. It tapers off gently and has no sharp corners. Comfy to hold and cannot injure user. Good ergonomics

Trigger guard is thin metal, can become sharp is hit on something or easily bent out of shape. Poor ergonomics

Dust Cover is metal, is cold to start with. Cold not comfy if resting cheek on it. poor ergonomics

Charging handle is 'reciprocating' that is, attached to the bolt and moves with every round fired. This could get in the way of something whilst operating and cause injury to the user. Poor ergonomics

Iron sight radius is not very long and the rear sight is very far from your eye, this can strain eyes and is just less accurate. Poor ergonomics

Foregrip is made of wood, an insulator, and has no sharp edges, again, smooth. Good ergonomics

foregrip extends all the way up forcing a single grip style that may not suit all users. Impossible for smaller handed users to use a thumb over bore technique. Poor ergonomics

No flash hider or Compensator on the iconic AK47, huge recoil as a result and much flash. This is worse at night. Poor ergonomics.

Controls:

Magazines must be loaded front first with a fairly fiddly first step. Poor Ergonomics

Trigger itself is too curved, as such your finger will always rest at the rear of the curve, not neccesarily where feels natural depending on your hand size. poor ergonomics

Hands must be moved from their firing position in order to manipulate the safety or drop a magazine. Poor Ergonomics

Well, I can't say it's done very well. 2/13 would not operate with

Having said all that, they do function very well and there is no denying their popularity. BUT THEY ARE NOT SODDING ERGO-FECKIN-NOMICAL