To BB or not to BB, that is the question.

[Ian_Gere]

Thanks for the info Ed.

they were zero one 0.20s and it went into the cylinder via the nozzle and made a bit of a mess of the piston head

So that's 2 votes against Z1's own BBs then.

Do you know how it happened, Josh? I'm thinking a BB must have got stuck, right? Are they un-spherical or is it just that they have weird shaped bits of badly moulded plastic mixed in with them like cheap 0.12s?

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Since we're talking about ammo, I wonder if anyone's ever thought of using cylindrical ammo instead of spherical... 'Cos I have.

If we launched tubes at each other, like blunted bullets instead of balls, then I'd have thought the weapons would be inherently more accurate, rifling in the barrel would work, giving yet greater accuracy, the only downside I can think of is that it would be an arse to load into your gun, hi-caps wouldn't work and neither would speed loaders.

Everything would have to be done with a push of the thumb like in real life and since it'd be such a chore, mags would probably be all low caps.

Still, I'd like that because I love realism...

Anyone have any other thoughts? I wonder if anyone's ever tried it.

 

[Ian_Gere]

I think it could well be a lot more complicated than that, Ed.

I mean, yeah rifling would work, but hop ups wouldn't. How much power would you need to get the ammo to fly straight without any back spin over the ranges we're used to? At close range it could be too hot, say 400+FPS in order to overcome wind resistance at 40-50m

I got hit in the thumb on Saturday from about 2m away by a BB from a CO2 Desert Eagle - it must have been under 350FPS but it hurt like fμ<Ж and that was through Pyrohide & Kevlar armoured gloves!

 

[Liam Porter]

I've thought about it before, not really got anything to try it with though.

Someone has done the idea and developed bullet-shaped paintballs.

 

[Hudson]

There used to be the Asahi M40 that had tear-drop shaped ammo; years back.

 

[M_P]

Through problem with bullet shaped ones is the lack of hop up. Unless they accelerate quick and to a higher velocity they won't have much range.

As for precision bb's, maruzen sgm's are supposedly the best but they're so expensive and no idea where to get them from in the UK.

I've used madbull (not bad), Z1 (not great), tm, and managed to get hold of some ksc a while back too which were very nice.

Remember different guns like different ammo and weights though so my advice is to always try a few different types.

Edit: just saw the above post.

Yeah the old Asahi m40 used metal rounds called 'blade bullets' (i think that's what they're called) but unsurpriugly you wouldn't use them in a skirmish.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Well, I can now add a 3rd thumbs up for BB King BBs - I fired about 1500-2000 of them through my CYMA AK47 on Saturday and they were fine. I did get a problem with a mag not feeding but I'm 99% sure that's because it got a hole shot in it the weekend before!

 

[Rock-climby-Dave]

Just going to add a 'professional' - I work at patrol base - opinion to some of the points brought up so far

car analogy

Yes, most people would not notice the difference between a £10K car and a £20K car when bobbing to the shop. In our case bobbing to the shop would be plinking - it doesn't really matter if you hit or miss, you're just setting hop up or whatever.

When we skirmish, that is much more akin to going racing. there IS someone there with better kit than you. imagine turning up to a race and someone is there in a Ferrari. suddenly your £10K get from a-to-b car doesn't seem quite enough. so you stick on some racing tyres and put the most expensive fuel you can find in it. no, your car probably won't perform much better, but that little extra in just the right circumstance does make the difference to a lap time (or whether you hit that fecker with a systema) or not.

BB's causing gearbox issues

It's not a hugely common thing, but it does happen. Obviously working at a place where poorly guns are sent, you do see everything, and BB jams CAN AND DO strip pistons and occasionally gear teeth if they aren't sorted quickly.

Often we get calls from people complaining a gun isn't working like it was when we sent it to them - often poor quality ammo is responsible. Often we cannot recreate an issue someone was having at home as we always use Blasters in store.

rifle quality to Bb quality

This is a biggy. Some rifles like some BB's. Most accept most BB's happily and will chug away all day doing nothing special. Finding the BB that works perfectly in any given rifle is almost magical. Blaster Devil .3's are the best in my VSR. trying madbull or other brands didn't offer me and MY vsr much good. other people find other brands work better.

Experimentation is the key really.

 

[rjmcgough]

I know im a bit late but I have used Zero Ones bbs in my guns all the time and have had no issues with them.

 

[Ian_Gere]

No reason not to resurrect this thread: what BBs to use is a perennial issue.

What guns have you used Z1 BBs in, mate?

I can add that I've put over 4000 BB King 0.2g BBs through my CYMA AK without any problems, even full-auto with a 9.6V battery overdriving the rate of fire. I know Z1 claim to be the cheapest quality BBs available, but I've got to say that's not true. 16,000 BB Kings for £26.99 inc P&P is the best deal I can find.

 

[the_robbo]

Between me and my mates we must have put 200,000 Z1 bbs through our guns. They all use 0.2s and i use 0.25s. None of us have had any issues and i run a 6.03 tbb.

Sniper wise i use Blaster devils cos i can get the increased weight i want (0.3 - 0.43).

 

[Ian_Gere]

200,000 is what I'd call a ringing endorsent, Robbo. Good to know; whatever the problem is that other people have complained about must be rare.

 

[geoffreym]

I have to do a negative for Zero-one BB's, i won a set of 10,000 rounds (0.25) about 2 years back, i only ever use them in my low tolerance guns (cyma, SRC, no TBB's), the second i put a set in my M16 (systema GB, 6.02mm madbull TBB), it misfed, it dirtied the barrel to the point where i was actually carrying a cleaning rod with me (only BB's i had, and i didn't have any money), and they've even jammed in 2 of my speed loaders. second i went back to blasters, everything was sorted.

my 2 pence worth, avoid them in high quality guns.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Same question to you then, Geoffrey: do you reckon Z1s are non-spherical or are there extraneous bits of plastic left over from the moulding process mixed in with them?

BTW, a bloke called Mitch, who runs an airsoft store, told me that CYMA guns come with a 6.04mm barrel as standard. I'm inclined to believe him, despite the price, because my CYMA AK outranged plenty of more expensive guns, with no hop whatsoever, right out of the box.

 

[geoffreym]

a bit of both, plus dirt and physical moulding lines, worst one i ever found was physically in half (jammed one of my speed loaders), didn't use the rest of the bag because i was terrified of the other half breaking any of my guns.

i've used them in cyma M14 and SRC G36's, mainly because they're cheap enough and easy enough to fix it's not that bad if the BB's f*** them up.

if your AK is 6.04mm and you don't believe us, buy a bag, clean the barrel, fire 500rds and then clean it again and if it doesn't jam, the cleaning cloth "WILL" be black with dirt.

 

[Ian_Gere]

if your AK is 6.04mm and you don't believe us, buy a bag, clean the barrel, fire 500rds and then clean it again and if it doesn't jam, the cleaning cloth "WILL" be black with dirt.

I don't actually have any callipers to measure the bore of my AK's barrel, I'm just reporting what I was told and my experience. I totally do believe you, not simply because you probably haven't got any reason to lie, but because you're not the only one to say Z1s are dodgy.

The thing is 6.04mm, at the tolerances we're talking about, when a quality BB ought to be 5.95mm +/- less than a fifth of a per cent, is quite a bit larger than 6.02mm, or even 6.03mm - basically, for the former it's more than the BB's manufacturing tolerance and about equal for the latter. To be non-spherical enough to jam a 6.02mm barrel, a BB would have to be out by 7 times the tolerance, which seems unlikely, but, if there is dirt and fragments of badly moulded BBs mixed in, then they could easily end up in the barrel at the same time as a properly sized BB and cause a jam.

 

[geoffreym]

I don't actually have any callipers to measure the bore of my AK's barrel, I'm just reporting what I was told and my experience. I totally do believe you, not simply because you probably haven't got any reason to lie, but because you're not the only one to say Z1s are dodgy.
The thing is 6.04mm, at the tolerances we're talking about, when a quality BB ought to be 5.95mm +/- less than a fifth of a per cent, is quite a bit larger than 6.02mm, or even 6.03mm - basically, for the former it's more than the BB's manufacturing tolerance and about equal for the latter. To be non-spherical enough to jam a 6.02mm barrel, a BB would have to be out by 7 times the tolerance, which seems unlikely, but, if there is dirt and fragments of badly moulded BBs mixed in, then they could easily end up in the barrel at the same time as a properly sized BB and cause a jam.

sorry about sounding a bit smarmy, didn't mean too at all. but i will say any gun with any quality will be screwed up by Z1's.

 

[Hudson]

Does anyone have any recommendations for sniper weight Biodegradable ammo in the UK?

Heaviest I've been able to find from a quick search are .28s; Marui and G&G.

Just wondering if anyone knows anywhere that sells anything over .3 (Preferably .36), and any brands to avoid/prefer when it comes to Bios?

*Edit- Found .3s from A.H. but still looking.

 

[rjmcgough]

I have used Z1 bbs in loads of games in my ICS M4A1, my G&G Toptech MP5A5 and my KJ Work Sig Sauer P226. No problems what-so-ever

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Zero One have apparently resized their BBs to a tolerance of .01mm (according to them the highest tolerance of any and all other BBs on the market) and they've also tested them in all the guns they'd heard reports of not working very well with their BBs and found no issues.

How thorough the tests were, or what the guns were isn't mentioned though.

Either way, I think they might deserve another chance. I think I'll bulk buy some .25s if they have any deals on.

Quote from their news letter: "Our Ultra Accuracy BB's have been resized for 2012 to ensure they now work with 99% of all airsoft guns, and are made with a precision tolerance of just 0.01mm deviation from specification - the highest possible standard available on the market today. We have tested this new size in all the leading brands, including 'sensitive' models that previously 'did not like' our BB, and have had absolutely no issues with our new sizing."