Taiwangun Shipping Disruption (Brexit Related Content)
- Thread starter Speedbird_666
- Start date
I wonder how many of those had posted on this forum in the last year with their clever idea to workaround the VCRA defences
Tactical Pith Helmet
AF-UK patch owner
- Jul 5, 2016
- 1,040
- 2,576
In contrast.... a lad I sometimes play informal games with at a local scrapyard ordered from TG just before they stopped shipping to the UK. No UKARA number yet straight to his door, much to my surprise. No requests for paperwork, no problem at all.
Silly situation.
Silly situation.
Those are scary words to me
’Informal games’ sets off quiet alarm bells. The risks & lines of responsibility of keeping control of safety for both players and anyone else
’Local scrapyard’ brings in a business and the owners taken on a liability by permitting the activity - or there’s trespassing and more danger between people who are allowed to be there and those who are trespassing
Tactical Pith Helmet
AF-UK patch owner
- Jul 5, 2016
- 1,040
- 2,576
Four or five mates meeting up on land belonging to one of them, when the business is locked shut, and keeping well away from any machinery etc is fine I am sure. Airsoft in 18 acres of meadows and orchards in the middle of an isolated fen is hardly likely to raise much concern for anyone I hope.
There’s no problem until there’s a problem
As it’s a workplace if an individual is injured then it becomes reportable to the HSE. (No need to report a non work related accident, but there is the need to report injuries to non workers)
Its up to the owner to decide whether they need to report or not, if the HSE get wind of it and decide it was reportable then that’s a big issue
For wider safety on controlled access a scrapyard will be in a better position than random woods - assuming it’s fenced off etc due to the nature of scrap and it’s value.
Its up to you and the owner, provided nothing gets out, nobody complains etc then there’s generally no legal issue in itself.
Provided things are run in a safe and controlled manner then things are less likely to go wrong, and if they do then there’s less risk of things going badly wrong.
If something does go wrong then it can go badly for the business owner
Meadows and orchards can be a different matter.
Isolation probably means no one is likely stumble into a game, but it happens.
Tactical Pith Helmet
AF-UK patch owner
- Jul 5, 2016
- 1,040
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Thanks, all stuff to reconsider.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
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Mmm, I'm not risk averse, and it's fine to do what you want with consent on private land. Public land, no matter how remote, is a huge no-no, as these muppets found out.
However, liability is always worth bearing in mind. It'll all be handshakes and gentleman's agreements until someone breaks a leg, impales themselves on a rusty spike, or takes some balls to the eye, and then it'll be a question of "Who pays my mortgage?". You cannot contractually waiver away liability for death or personal injury.
Generally you'd go after the deepest pockets. What I'd imagine would happen is that Crippled Cathy would sue the scrapyard for some failure in a duty of care (unsuitable use of the site, site was hazardous, site was responsible for checking gnus for hotness if they were going to let airsoft run there) , their PLI insurer (hopefully they have one) will initially say "Go away, not covered", and it'll end in a legal wrangle. If it gets to court the bench will say "You're not strictly liable, but you've got money, so pay up, then recover it from your client", the insurer would go after the site, and the site might then go after whoever was organising the games. Either way, it could get messy, drag on for years, and end up coming out of individuals' pockets.
It'll be fine until it's not, of course.
However, liability is always worth bearing in mind. It'll all be handshakes and gentleman's agreements until someone breaks a leg, impales themselves on a rusty spike, or takes some balls to the eye, and then it'll be a question of "Who pays my mortgage?". You cannot contractually waiver away liability for death or personal injury.
Generally you'd go after the deepest pockets. What I'd imagine would happen is that Crippled Cathy would sue the scrapyard for some failure in a duty of care (unsuitable use of the site, site was hazardous, site was responsible for checking gnus for hotness if they were going to let airsoft run there) , their PLI insurer (hopefully they have one) will initially say "Go away, not covered", and it'll end in a legal wrangle. If it gets to court the bench will say "You're not strictly liable, but you've got money, so pay up, then recover it from your client", the insurer would go after the site, and the site might then go after whoever was organising the games. Either way, it could get messy, drag on for years, and end up coming out of individuals' pockets.
It'll be fine until it's not, of course.
Tactical Pith Helmet
AF-UK patch owner
- Jul 5, 2016
- 1,040
- 2,576
All stuff to consider in most places to think about it. Miles of farmland to play on, but it is still of course commercial/a business premises. Even playing in a private garden could be considered to have a responsible organiser I am thinking?
I suppose to some extent it concerns what we are prepared not to do on our own property, due to the possibility of something going wrong.
I suppose to some extent it concerns what we are prepared not to do on our own property, due to the possibility of something going wrong.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
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I wish we didn't live in a litigious society, it's only lawyers who really profit. But sadly it's the reality that when someone loses their life, mobility or income, it very quickly becomes an issue of "There's must be a claim, even without blame."
The significant case law is Volwes v Evans and the Welsh Rugby Union, where an unpaid volunteer referee was held liable for an injury to an amateur player. The Rugby Union's insurers ended up footing the bill, but mostly because courts like to award against the deepest pockets just on the practicality (if not fairness) of it.
I'd get something on record that there is no organiser, marshalling or refereeing, and that everyone is participating as peers and solely responsible for their own actions.
The significant case law is Volwes v Evans and the Welsh Rugby Union, where an unpaid volunteer referee was held liable for an injury to an amateur player. The Rugby Union's insurers ended up footing the bill, but mostly because courts like to award against the deepest pockets just on the practicality (if not fairness) of it.
I'd get something on record that there is no organiser, marshalling or refereeing, and that everyone is participating as peers and solely responsible for their own actions.
Lozart
Supporters
- Jun 24, 2013
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It was private land, the fine was issued for breaching the Rule of Six, no other action was taken.
Tactical Pith Helmet
AF-UK patch owner
- Jul 5, 2016
- 1,040
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RonLancs
Members
- Dec 31, 2019
- 380
- 43
The crime is getting caught, something that should be kept private.
copyright https://airsoft-forums.uk/profile/19415-magpietactical/
View attachment 75774
On the topic of ordering from TG, has anyone else lost the option to select a delivery on the website? I was willing to gamble an order due to them having something out of stock elsewhere, but when checking out, I select Great Britain, tick a 'terms of delivery box', and then an error saying' Your shopping cart contains the following errors: Choose delivery method'
Changing GB to any other country unlocks a check box for delivery type, but this isn't there for GB. Am I missing something, or have they suspended orders?
Changing GB to any other country unlocks a check box for delivery type, but this isn't there for GB. Am I missing something, or have they suspended orders?
RonLancs
Members
- Dec 31, 2019
- 380
- 43
Last edited by a moderator:
Tactical Pith Helmet
AF-UK patch owner
- Jul 5, 2016
- 1,040
- 2,576
Must be secret squirrel level serious if the UKARA police can get involved!
Rigal
Members
- May 10, 2021
- 26
- 4
So far, nothing. Nothing chasing it up. I think their asses have finially caught up with what passes for their brains and realised they've fucked up.
I only really started playing airsoft at the end of 2019 and didn't get my Ukara until about October 2020 due to lockdown and travel needed to get to the field. Well before getting my Ukara, I made something like 5 orders from TG of at least 5 RIFs and multiple mags, BB's, holsters and other gear. Every single one got to my door without any issues from Border Force or anyone else.
On a side note with your informal games, a signed waiver from all involved should help protect the owner from any accidents and so on. Just do all you can to cover asses. Just in case.
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Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
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It's a tricky one. You can consent to accepting risk and being reasonably harmed (combat sports, piercings, surgical procedures, being shot with bits of plastic), but you can't agree to waive liability for negligence that results in death or personal injury (Consumer Rights Act 2015 S65) in any trader/consumer relationship. It's fuzzier on a personal level, I'm not sure of the case law on that.
I should clarify that I think it's best for all involved if there is someone who has a clear duty of care, and is explicitly insured for that risk. I'd hate to see any individual be left holding the liability bag should the worst happen.
Ah, my bad, I didn't realise it was private land. With permission? I wonder who squealed on them.
Lozart
Supporters
- Jun 24, 2013
- 8,493
- 4,942
I believe it was a dog walker or some such that wasn't entirely aware of what was going on. Entirely valid response from the Police though (more than 6 and travelling from Southampton).
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