Sold a RIF without defense

[MPToReality]

Hey guys, 

This will be my first post because it's been on my mind since the purchase and need to get it cleared up. 

I purchased my first airsoft firearm from a high street shop a few weeks ago. I went into the shop vaguely knowing about RIF laws/regulations, but was told that I could purchase a RIF pistol without defense, but if I wanted a rifle I would need to provide a UKARA number. 

The person took a copy of my photo ID and asked a few general questions, like what I did for work etc. 

Was the retailer wrong to have sold me the pistol? 

 

[Gepard]

End of the day it's up to the seller to verify that the buyer is a regular skirmisher and of the legal age. If he felt satisfied having asked a few general questions and a quick glance at your ID then that's on him if you decided to go rob a bank with it the next day. 

Bit weird that he'd sell you a pistol without any information but to purchase a rifle he needed UKARA. It's still a RIF.. I certainly wouldn't sell any of my RIFs to somebody unless they could prove to me that they are an active player. 

Got any pics of your new toy? 

 

[MPToReality]

End of the day it's up to the seller to verify that the buyer is a regular skirmisher and of the legal age. If he felt satisfied having asked a few general questions and a quick glance at your ID then that's on him if you decided to go rob a bank with it the next day. 

Bit weird that he'd sell you a pistol without any information but to purchase a rifle he needed UKARA. It's still a RIF.. I certainly wouldn't sell any of my RIFs to somebody unless they could prove to me that they are an active player. 

Got any pics of your new toy? 

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That's exactly what I thought, a RIF is a RIF regardless. I'm trying to find a UKARA site that's relatively close to me (I don't drive) to be able to go through the process of purchasing RIFs properly anyway, but with all the info on the sale of them I was shocked to have been allowed to walk out with one. 

I picked up a Tolmar GP P1 Mk7, the non blowback 6mm version. 

View attachment 37643

 

[L3wisD]

Hmm.. aren't those air pistols and not Airsoft pistols?

What does it chrono at?

 

[Gepard]

Hmm.. aren't those air pistols and not Airsoft pistols?

What does it chrono at?

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That's a good point actually. Would explain why they wouldn't sell him the rifle without a defense. 

 

[Rogerborg]

aren't those air pistols and not Airsoft pistols?

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4.5mm steel and 6mm BB versions are available: http://www.sportsmk.co.uk/cat/31659/air-pistols-air-pistols/tolmar/#28735 . And yes, I'd also be rather concerned that it'll chrono hotter than Kate Upton doing naked yoga in a sauna.

It's vaguely possible that the shopkeep believes that because there's an air pistol version, that air gun statutes trump the RIF statutes, even when selling a BB version.  To be fair, the whole area of firearms / airguns / RIF law is such an hilarious contradictory clusterfrack that it's hard to be sure.

Me though, I'd call that a RIF all day long, and I'd believe that an offence has been committed by the seller (but not by the purchaser if he's 18+).  That applies double if it does chrono super hot, since how could you reasonably argue that it was sold for airsoft use?

Aside, there's a whole can of worms that many airguns would fall foul of the VCRA S38 definition of a RIF, and no, air guns are not exempted from it.  At a 30 second Google, I can find airgun sellers flogging .177 RIFs and just asking to see ID.  I have no idea why they think this is OK.  I guess because nobody has stopped them doing it.

It all comes down on the retailer though.  Their risk, their choice.  If it's not being policed, as it apparently isn't, it's not much of a risk.

 

[L3wisD]

@MPToReality - It might be worth running that thing through a chronograph as soon as possible.

There's a chance it's going to fire incredibly hot and thus won't be allowed to be used on an airsoft site - rendering your purchase completely redundant.

 

[MisterG]

Is there a product code is quoted on the box?

That may give an indication on whether it is an airsoft or air gun.

Cheers

G

 

[MPToReality]

That explains a lot, although I have to admit I didn't realise there were different categories of weapon - air and airsoft. 

How would I go about checking its temps after discharge? 

Is there a product code is quoted on the box?

That may give an indication on whether it is an airsoft or air gun.

Cheers

G

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070-004

 

[L3wisD]

According to a couple of places, that weighs in at 440+ FPS.

I'd suggest returning it for a refund if that is the case.

Hopefully you've still got all the packaging and it's in good condition

 

[MPToReality]

According to a couple of places, that weighs in at 440+ FPS.

I'd suggest returning it for a refund if that is the case.

Hopefully you've still got all the packaging and it's in good condition

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Hmm, with that FPS I'm assuming I wouldn't be able to use it on a site? Isn't the pistol limit something like 380? I'm completely new to the sport, slightly pissed off that I wasted my money on something that isn't fit for purpose in that case. 

 

[Ongemakje]

350-360 on most fields. 

snipers usually 450-500 with a minimum engagement of 30meters.

Sorry bud, i'd return it and get something online instead, or from real airsoft shops at least

 

[sonofsammo]

Sorry bud, i'd return it and get something online instead, or from real airsoft shops at least

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But not from a site with BB in the title.........

 

[Rogerborg]

with that FPS I'm assuming I wouldn't be able to use it on a site?

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Well, hang fire until you find out.  But it's not looking good - Evike does indeed claim 440fps+ from the blowback version, and the non-blowback might come in even higher

Check the site where you're intending to play.  CQB sites tend to have a hard limit for all weapons of around 350fps with 0.2g BBs.  Outdoors, anything over 350-ish will fall into the DMR category and you'll be expected to maintain a minimum engagement distance of 20m or even 30m, which rather obviates the point of using a pistol.

Since you specifically asked for something for airsoft use, it'd be a rogue's trick to sell you anything more than ~350fps without making you aware of the issues.

 

[BigStew]

It's stupid if it's classed as an air gun even if it's a replica of a firearm you only need to be over 18 to buy if its classed as airsoft the seller needs proof of your defence. 

 

[MPToReality]

Well, hang fire until you find out.  But it's not looking good - Evike does indeed claim 440fps+ from the blowback version, and the non-blowback might come in even higher

Check the site where you're intending to play.  CQB sites tend to have a hard limit for all weapons of around 350fps with 0.2g BBs.  Outdoors, anything over 350-ish will fall into the DMR category and you'll be expected to maintain a minimum engagement distance of 20m or even 30m, which rather obviates the point of using a pistol.

Since you specifically asked for something for airsoft use, it'd be a rogue's trick to sell you anything more than ~350fps without making you aware of the issues.

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Once I've been to my local site, I'll ask if they have any equipment to check the FPS before I use it. It's CQB, so I doubt I'll be able to use it anyway but I'll ask. 

 

[Druid799]

Once I've been to my local site, I'll ask if they have any equipment to check the FPS before I use it. It's CQB, so I doubt I'll be able to use it anyway but I'll ask. 

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Put it this way bud If they don’t have a chrono it’s a bullshit site and you need to get out as fast as you can ! ALL sites should have chrono’s to check the players guns before the day starts ! 

 

[MPToReality]

Put it this way bud If they don’t have a chrono it’s a bullshit site and you need to get out as fast as you can ! ALL sites should have chrono’s to check the players guns before the day starts ! 

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Alright, I'll keep it in mind for my first game!

 

[Rogerborg]

Um, if you turn up with just that pistol, you may find yourself not playing at all unless you're also renting.

It should say somewhere on the box or manual how much energy that gun is putting out, either a fps number <=350fps with 0.2g, or a Joules figure <= 1.13J.

If it doesn't, the shop should be able to tell you what they sold you.  Any airsoft shop worth the name will also have a chrono where  you can find out for sure.

 

[MPToReality]

Um, if you turn up with just that pistol, you may find yourself not playing at all unless you're also renting.

It should say somewhere on the box or manual how much energy that gun is putting out, either a fps number <=350fps with 0.2g, or a Joules figure <= 1.13J.

If it doesn't, the shop should be able to tell you what they sold you.  Any airsoft shop worth the name will also have a chrono where  you can find out for sure.

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I'll be renting anyway, the site offers MP5's or AK74u's depending on availability. I just figured having someone check the gun in person would be a good idea. I picked the RIF up on holiday in the countryside, so I don't have the option of going back to the shop unfortunately.