Legality of replacing IF parts to create a RIF

[Digital]

I know this was partially already covered but if my M4's solid stock was covered in camo tape and having removed the tape it left behind a rifle which is now 20% green, if I want to replace the stock with a crane stock (black) is that legal? Or does it count as manufacturing an RIF? I don't really have a defence as I play in my friends private land (few acres). Though in the near future I want to go to a skirmish.

Thanks

 

[Baz JJ]

Have you read this:

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/20986-two-tone-guns-and-tape/

 

[Sitting Duck]

Illegal but tbh who will know or care unless you are a dick

A RIF should be aprox 51% - more than half an easy to distinguish colour

You should at least start to skirmish a bit which would give you "some" defense

By law if your are not ukara'd or defense then you need a IF

now you could be "gifted" a RIF as we all know but that does not mean it still 101% ok for a minor to have that......

before anybody jumps in - consider this.....

Jimmy is 15yrs old and has been "gifted" a RIF from his brother/father/uncle - all above board perhaps...

Now Jimmy decides one day to go up to his mates private farm and do a bit of target shooting

He does have the common sense to transport the RIF hidden in a proper gun/airsoft bag rather than an Aldi carrier bag

BUT is stopped on his mountain bike by the local police......

Now Jimmy just wtf are you gonna say/prove you ain't some dick looking to shoot anything in their sights say at local park etc.....

Why have you got a gun - a realistic imitation firearm when you are under 18, and not known to any airsoft site ????

I'm not a lawyer but with the above example as you might travel to your mates farm

I can't just say it will be OK coz by the above example and from legal standpoint it is NOT ok

Most of this is down to YOUR DEFENSE or reason for you to have any airsoft weapon if under 18

Yes many players may not be 18+ but they are players or members of a club so they kind have a reason

Or some sort of defense to present and prove if challenged

Yes you can get away with it - but only if you are not caught - this does not mean it is legal - 2 different things altogether

Just because I am over 18 & ukara'd still don't mean much if I conduct myself like some bell end tw*t.

even if I have stuff all bagged up I would fully expect to be pulled over and seriously questioned and have to prove I have

reasonable reason to have a RIF in my car - this must arise also when people use public transport etc.....

For this reason if you get a tug even if being mature and responsible - you should have "some" sort of defense

this could enable you to keep out of trouble and probably not have your aeg confiscated or even destroyed

(let alone in worst case scenario get dragged down the station faces more investigation/charge etc...)

soz but though most won't care too much there is a few hard facts you need to be aware of

and if you was legally allowed to own a RIF then you wouldn't be asking this

Soz if this isn't the reply you seek but you need to be aware it ISN'T just ok to paint a gun and go shooting in fields with no possible comeback

 

[Alcon H]

Jimmy is 15yrs old and has been "gifted" a RIF from his brother/father/uncle - all above board perhaps...

Now Jimmy decides one day to go up to his mates private farm and do a bit of target shooting

He does have the common sense to transport the RIF hidden in a proper gun/airsoft bag rather than an Aldi carrier bag

BUT is stopped on his mountain bike by the local police......

Now Jimmy just wtf are you gonna say/prove you ain't some dick looking to shoot anything in their sights say at local park etc.....

Why have you got a gun - a realistic imitation firearm when you are under 18, and not known to any airsoft site ????

Well it would be against the law for the police to stop and search you without a reasonable suspicion of you committing a crime. I know that's basically what you said, but if you transport it in a container (preferably locked), I can't see you running into any problems.

It's common sense really. Even if they do find it on his person, it's completely legal for him to have it since it's in a container and he's travelling from one place to another. There's nothing illegal provided you're not sat around the park waving it at people.

 

[Sitting Duck]

UHM ergh me thinks that might not be completely true.......

if the police pull you up me thinks they can and WILL find out what you have in your bag etc....

failing to co-operate with a request....

well that adds to suspicion and so will have reason to search or investigate further.......

Ahhhhh - a RIF, now why would Jimmy have a RIF

it was gifted by his uncle, ok can we confirm this - bit of hassle and time but they ain't gonna let it drop

without establishing "some" facts about how a minor came into this

(could even be a stolen RIF)

Now can you tell me why you got this in your bag ????

Shooting you say, shooting what and where ?????

Oh - that old chestnut eh ? says the copper and seeks more clarification about a bit of private land

More checks n stuff and like I said depending on proof/defense I do not know the full final outcome coz I ain't no lawyer

But the police can easily check & search any of us especially in the recent alerts

and anything but co-operation will only arouse suspicion and then they can and WILL search/request you to acompany them

Police ain't perfect but they are there to do a job and should be investigating an u18 carrying around a IF or RIF in my book

(heck already said if I got pulled over I'd fully understand them giving me 20 questions about my stuff)

 

[Mike636]

I think more likley

"what's in your bag?"

"Toy gun Mr Policeman Officer"

"Let's have a look/go"

Pew pew pew

"Right we're off as there are only 6 of us policing about 150 square miles and as much as we would love to have an indepth chat about various pieces of pointless legislation we've shit to be doing. Tatty bye bye"

 

[TheGrover]

Back to OP:

Unless the gun still looks unrealistic after the change, its technically illegal, but practically, nobody will be arsed.

If you want to do it belt and braces, youd have to wait til you are 18 and have a few games under your belt so you can reasonably prove the gun was bought/adapted for airsoft and not Violent Crime.

Otherwise just do it and keep the gun safely locked away and transported safely

 

[Digital]

Thanks for the replies; I do keep it in my gun bag and if I get caught with a RIF at a skrimish then I guess I kinda have a defence as I am actually at a skirmish.

I was more looking for the legality of swapping out the handguard for a black one before going to a skirmish for the first time.

(And just because I haven't gone to a skirmish doesn't mean that I am new to airsoft!)

And even if you don't go to a skirmish can you use the fact that you play with around 7 friends on private land as a defense?

 

[Mike636]

To it to count as a re-enactor the place where you conduct your activities must be registered and hold insurance so unfortunately not.

It would be technically illigal to swap them as you're manufacturing an Realistic Imitation Firearm from a Imitation Firearm (two tone or IF).

Its not illigal to posses a RIF at all the only place that could land you in trouble would be if you had it uncovered in a public place.

Tl;DR Yes but no bodycares

 

[Alcon H]

UHM ergh me thinks that might not be completely true.......

if the police pull you up me thinks they can and WILL find out what you have in your bag etc....

failing to co-operate with a request....

well that adds to suspicion and so will have reason to search or investigate further.......

Ahhhhh - a RIF, now why would Jimmy have a RIF

it was gifted by his uncle, ok can we confirm this - bit of hassle and time but they ain't gonna let it drop

without establishing "some" facts about how a minor came into this

(could even be a stolen RIF)

Now can you tell me why you got this in your bag ????

Shooting you say, shooting what and where ?????

Oh - that old chestnut eh ? says the copper and seeks more clarification about a bit of private land

More checks n stuff and like I said depending on proof/defense I do not know the full final outcome coz I ain't no lawyer

But the police can easily check & search any of us especially in the recent alerts

and anything but co-operation will only arouse suspicion and then they can and WILL search/request you to acompany them

Police ain't perfect but they are there to do a job and should be investigating an u18 carrying around a IF or RIF in my book

(heck already said if I got pulled over I'd fully understand them giving me 20 questions about my stuff)

https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rights

Stop and search: police powers

A police officer has powers to stop and search you if they have ‘reasonable grounds’ to suspect you’re carrying:

• illegal drugs
• a weapon
• stolen property
• something which could be used to commit a crime, eg a crowbar

As I said: if they have ‘reasonable grounds’ to suspect

If you have done nothing wrong, and you are travelling to and from a location with your RIF stored away and out of sight, then there is no reasonable grounds to search you. Sure, they can stop and ask you what you're doing and why you're there, but then you simply reply "I'm going to..". You do not need to mention the items you are carrying on your person.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Sites don't give a crap about you painting ya gun:

"its your gun do what ya feckin' like with it" my site told me

(ain't them that painted or sold it to me)

if a copper stops you - then they usually have "some" kind of reason, otherwise they would be saying hello to everybody

So they in effect are at the very least shall we say "curious" or being feckin nosey

Kid on bike with a long bag could be going fishing but if you are drawing attention to yourself then it goes without saying

Chances are if you are carrying a big bag I'm sure most police officers would ask the obvious:

"whats in the bag" question and if you was less than co-operative then they would have the "suspicion" or "reason"

You can quote all the various rights and stuff but just saying how it works in the real world usually

Again - don't be a dick and you will probably be fine - unless you are really unlucky to get stopped by some bastid who has had a very bad day already

 

[Alcon H]

Sites don't give a crap about you painting ya gun:

"its your gun do what ya feckin' like with it" my site told me

(ain't them that painted or sold it to me)

if a copper stops you - then they usually have "some" kind of reason, otherwise they would be saying hello to everybody

So they in effect are at the very least shall we say "curious" or being feckin nosey

Kid on bike with a long bag could be going fishing but if you are drawing attention to yourself then it goes without saying

Chances are if you are carrying a big bag I'm sure most police officers would ask the obvious:

"whats in the bag" question and if you was less than co-operative then they would have the "suspicion" or "reason"

You can quote all the various rights and stuff but just saying how it works in the real world usually

Again - don't be a dick and you will probably be fine - unless you are really unlucky to get stopped by some bastid who has had a very bad day already

I have carried rifle bags, large camping rucksacks through cities past plenty of police officers and not once been stopped or asked what's in my bag. Police would have no reason to ask me and simply wouldn't care what's in it anyway...

I can imagine however, that if I were to act like a dick, then they would stop me.

 

[Sitting Duck]

I wasn't saying police would stop you because you got a bag

like I said could be going fishing but....

If they stopped you - they would ask/want to know what is in there - well quite likely just being nosey

and stating some rights would only raise their suspicions even more so they would investigate further

Chances are they "may" not be too bothered about it if that person - even u18 had it in a bag and could tell them some sort of defense crap

Being in a bag, being honest up front & open should imply that they were being responsible etc......

Just pointing this out and if any of us were stopped we may need to prove or provide some answers or defense

As long as we all don't act like dicks then the chances of us being pulled up are very very slim

But it would be very wise to be honest & if possible have some sort of defense ready to ease any further hassle/questioning

Think that roughly covers the matter that is a wise thing to have "some" sort of defense and act a little responsibly if possible

(in effect - don't be a dick)

If you do get stopped then they could ask what you have in bag - out of interest or just being nosey

and perhaps it would be wiser to answer any questions than quote some legislation or your rights

but if you wanna quote away - then fine, just that may arouse their suspicion more and people can continue the conversation

either at roadside for another 20 or 30 mins or down at the station...

Being a smart ar$e to a copper is not perhaps a very wise thing if you have nothing to hide and wish to be on your way quickly

 

[Alcon H]

If they stopped you - they would ask/want to know what is in there - well quite likely just being nosey

and stating some rights would only raise their suspicions even more so they would investigate further

So you're saying that I should surrender my rights to the police just because they're nosey?

If I get stopped for a decent reason, I'd co-operate fully. If I am stopped for no reason, I'll challenge them on it. They can arrest me, but it'd be false arrest and then they'd have a real shit storm coming their way.

Police officers cannot overrule our rights. People like you let police abuse their powers and it's the reason they carry on doing so with other people. If you want to let a police officer look in your bag because they're just being nosey, then by all means go ahead, but I certainly won't, regardless of what's in there be it an RIF or my laptop.

 

[Sitting Duck]

So you're saying that I should surrender my rights to the police just because they're nosey?

If I get stopped for a decent reason, I'd co-operate fully. If I am stopped for no reason, I'll challenge them on it. They can arrest me, but it'd be false arrest and then they'd have a real sh*t storm coming their way.

Police officers cannot overrule our rights. People like you let police abuse their powers and it's the reason they carry on doing so with other people. If you want to let a police officer look in your bag because they're just being nosey, then by all means go ahead, but I certainly won't, regardless of what's in there be it an RIF or my laptop.

be it a RIF or a laptop or a non UK spec Blank firing RIF from France you seek to import one way or another

Whatever - you win I'm done on this - you can continue you this on your own

 

[Alcon H]

be it a RIF or a laptop or a non UK spec Blank firing RIF from France you seek to import one way or another

And the point of that comment is? The blank firing RIF from spain is actually UK spec, just half the price.

Was that supposed to be an insult or....?

 

[Sitting Duck]

ooops my bad

soz forgot to state in there - if it still meets the newly updated 2015 guidelines

and also forgot say about you also seeking to remove paint as well as a blank firing IF or RIF???

all perfectly normal and in no way would that sound even the slightest bit suspicious to a copper/judge

 

[Alcon H]

ooops my bad

soz forgot to state in there - if it still meets the newly updated 2015 guidelines

and also forgot say about you also seeking to remove paint as well as a blank firing IF or RIF???

all perfectly normal and in no way would that sound even the slightest bit suspicious to a copper/judge

What exactly is your point here? You're just rambling on and your sentences are barely coherent.

 

[Sitting Duck]

lol - i get told that everyday

btw just buy a Blank RIF here or abroad then

Oh no you can't so in effect you do meet the VCRA requirements

and seek to break the law - which you appear to care very little for

yup that don't sound suspicious then - my very bad

yet you go on about about your rights if stopped by the police who are there to uphold the law

you know - law: something you seem to be trying to avoid

if this still makes very little sense then perhaps ask somebody else to explain this to you - very very slowly

 

[Alcon H]

lol - i get told that everyday

Yeah, no surprise there.

btw just buy a Blank RIF here or abroad then

Oh no you can't so in effect you do meet the VCRA requirements

and seek to break the law - which you appear to care very little for

yup that don't sound suspicious then - my very bad

Well, if you read my other topic, you'd see that I plan to.

You have no idea whether or not I have a defense under the VCR act. I was asking about the legality of importing, not the legality of having or buying one. I'm trying to find the cheapest price. The cheapest options are to buy one with an orange slide and remove the paint or to buy from abroad. It's not because I don't have the defense or the ability to buy one legally, because I do.

Also, what makes you think that I have no care for the law? I have not broken any laws, only stated my rights as a UK citizen. Clearly you're a sheep that doesn't understand the concepts of rights and just surrenders to any old copper that wants to be "nosey" as you put it.

yet you go on about about your rights if stopped by the police who are there to uphold the law

you know - law: something you seem to be trying to avoid

In what way am I trying to avoid the law?

if this still makes very little sense then perhaps ask somebody else to explain this to you - very very slowly

Your grammar and ability to construct a coherent sentence won't change regardless of what speed it is read or who is reading it.