Legal advice - Firing in garden.

[nicholas-c]

Hey folks, need some advice and maybe some excuses to how much trouble I may be in if I am caught.. (Will elaborate on this later), Out of my bedroom window there is a perfect 200-250ft range to some garages in an open area. I can see up and down the street so there isn't an issue of hitting anyone. Wondering what the legality of this is? I stand at the back of my room, fire through the open window so I'm out of sight. Any issues?

Also, what about firing targets IN my back garden. Shooting from my back door to a target nothing leaving my property (to my knowledge)

Anyway. On top of what I can and can't do... I have already done some firing and apparently the police have been called to the area (but not near me as "I'm out of range) I don't know the full story but here is what I know.

I was shooting in my back garden with my mates on Wednesday (fellow airsofters) showing off my new upgrades and a bit of (safe, goggles etc) fun and testing as it was an upgrade. We then went out to the pub and when I came back my mother was fuming, Apparently the neighbors a few doors down had been round saying a few BB's came into their garden (Ricochet off fence I guess) They weren't annoyed but asked if this could stop as soon as possible and informed my mother that the police are looking for someone who shot someone a few days ago with a BB gun they knew about the police as they were asked by them if they owned any BB/airsoft equipment as they have a view of these garages and are in range.

Basically long story short, Police are looking for someone in possession of airsoft guns that are in view of the garages as someone was hit. How much trouble am I in if they figure out it was me (If they care?) They can't really prove it. After all I am over 300ft away from where the person was apparently...

Nicholas-c

Edit: If I did hit someone then I am genuinely sorry to them it wasn't intended and I do understand the risks (Please don't lecture on that)

 

[lemon191]

if the bbs leave the property then you are in breach of the law. shooting you bb guns within the boundries of your garden is fine as long as its out of site to the public (inform any neibours of what you do so they know they are not real) and you are able to catch any bbs (hang anything soft llike a towl, curtain etc behind it the material will absorb the power instead of it bouncing off)

as for punishment i believe theress a fine of upto £1000 for shooting into other peoples property without concent. and id guess the usual bodily harm laws apply to actualy hitting someone although i would imagine you would get a caution if the people involved didnt want to press charges.

 

[Johnno]

Given the state of the Country (riddled with PC do-gooders and potential Terrorists) I wouldn't risk it in any way, shape or form unless you have no Neighbours and extensive private grounds.

 

[Tariq]

On a related note.... law on setting off a blank in your garden?

 

[Deva]

You don't have permission to shoot out at those garages, it's not your land and if you're stood back in your room, you're not at the window so you can't see properly. You also can't account for wind or ricochets which could lead to someone being hit that you can't see.

Take more care to ensure the BB's stay within your property, and if necessary sort something else out for testing guns. It's just not worth it.

 

[ScoobySnacks]

On a related note.... law on setting off a blank in your garden?

Click to shrink...

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Can you legally let fireworks off in your garden? (hint, the answer is yes). A blank is just a different form of firework.

If you were pointing the blank firing gun at someone and using it to threaten them then you would be in trouble, but there is nothing illegal about letting a blank off.

As for the BB's leaving the property, I'm not sure if the law you're quoting applies to that. It is meant for airguns, "lethal, barreled weapons". An airsoft gun is not classed as such, due to it's very low power. If an airsoft gun was classified as a firearm for the purposes of the Firearms Act 1968, then you wouldn't be able to possess automatic, or even semi automatic, versions.

Still very silly to shoot it so that projectiles land outside the boundary of any land you have permission on, and especially so if those projectiles hit anyone.

As for never letting anyone see your guns, I'm very much of the opinion that as long as you are not committing an offence, they can do as they please. I shoot a lot with FAC rifles, .22LR, .22WMR and .243, as well as air rifles, (all held legally, and used within the conditions on the certificate, and only on land over which I have permission etc.) and am regularly seen in the fields by members of the public. I've not had an armed response team yet, though I know people who have, but have had regular plod turn up on more than one occasion. If you aren't breaking the law there is nothing they can do!

If you are on your own land, or land over which you have permission to shoot, then it doesn't matter who sees you. The same with working on your guns at home. As long as you are sensible, get a decent slip to make sure your gun is covered anywhere in public, and only use it in a lawful and legal manner, then you will have no problems with the law.

Of course, if you shoot Joe Public, or spray BB's all over places you don't have permission, then you are asking for trouble, and will get a damn good spanking, your weapons seized and a criminal record.

So OP, keep the pellets in your garden. It doesn't matter if you can see for miles in all directions, if you don't have permission then you can't shoot over it. Simples!

 

[Rolo Rolo]

As Scooby said, if it's not yours, don't shoot at it or over it.

From VCRA Section 21A:-

“21A Firing an air weapon beyond premises.

(1)A person commits an offence if— .

(a)he has with him an air weapon on any premises; and .

(b)he uses it for firing a missile beyond those premises. .

(2)In proceedings against a person for an offence under this section it shall be a defence for him to show that the only premises into or across which the missile was fired were premises the occupier of which had consented to the firing of the missile (whether specifically or by way of a general consent).”

Punishment is a fine of up to £1000.

Additionally....

Firing a weapon within 15m/50ft of a public highway can lead to a fine of upto £1000, so you might not even be allowed to shoot in your garden or bedroom in a small property.

It might also be worth noting that there is also an offence of "Threatening others with an air weapon (even if unloaded) to cause them to fear unlawful violence". which carries a 10 year sentence and/or appropriate fine.

"Threatening" is one of those terms that means different things to different people. Just because an individual does not consider a few lads shooting out of a window threatening, doesn't mean the rest of the world feels the same way. The fact that the shooter didn't INTEND to threaten anyone is mitigating, but may not be a secure defence against the law.

There's a useful government PDF on this HERE

 

[Richard65]

Quite frankly you sound like a total dipstick who should own nothing more that a water pistol.

You say that you fire at targets in your garden and to the best of your knowledge the pellets do not go outside your garden and then say that neighbours `a few doors away' complain about bbs in their garden. Seems like you have quite a high fps but that depends on how far away `a few doors' is.

If you use a cardboard box (shoe box or wine box) and stick your target to it then the bbs will stay inside the box rather than bounce about into other people's gardens. It is also easy to hang some towels etc to form a safe target area but sound as if you can't be bothered to take simple precautions.

How can you claim to be aware of the risks and that you can see the road is clear when you also say that you stand at the back of the room and shoot at garages well outside the boundary or your property.

 

[ScoobySnacks]

Rolo, good info on the VCRA, but you've missed a fair chunk of the "fifty foot" rule out.

The fifty foot rule is laid down in the Road Traffic Act, (to be precise, sections 131 and 161 of the Highways Act 1980) and applies only to "a highway which is a carriageway". It's legalese, but basically means a metalled (tarmac/concrete) roadway that is designed for vehicular use and is open to the public. A footpath does not count, neither does a bridleway or any other form of right of way that's not a proper road.

What you also didn't mention was that firing the weapon withing fifty feet is only one part of the action/effect required for an offence to take place. For section 131 (damage to highways) some damage to the highway must be caused by the discharge. Pretty unlikely with an airsoft gun I'm sure you'd agree, and of course the VCRA forbids the firing of BB's outwith the boundary of the land you have permission to shoot on. You almost certainly DON'T have permission to shoot on the public highway!) so you won't be firing the BB gun in such a way that there is any possibility of the BB's entering the carriageway, and therefore no damage can possibly take place.

For section 161 (the part most people refer to when they quote the fifty foot rule) the other thing that must occur to cause an offence to happen is that "a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered,". Now, again, if you are using a BB gun, then VCRA states that you must not allow your pellet to leave the ground you have permission on. Ergo you cannot possibly harm or endanger a person using the highway. Normally the noise of discharging the firearm might be sufficient to endanger a user, for example a horse rider, but the noise signature of most airsoft guns is sufficiently small to mean this is not a problem.

So there is no offence committed if you fire your airsoft gun near a road, given the usual caveats about not threatening people, or being in possession without good reason in a public place etc.

Of course, the other thing I would mention is that it's arguable whether an airsoft gun could ever commit such an offence, on the grounds that it is not classed as a "firearm" under the definition set out in the Firearms act(s) due to the very low power rating. The firearms act defines a firearm as a "lethal, barrelled weapon" and an airsoft gun does not reach energy levels at which the projectile could be classed as "lethal".

 

[Angelina786]

You don't have permission to shoot out at those garages, it's not your land and if you're stood back in your room, you're not at the window so you can't see properly. You also can't account for wind or ricochets which could lead to someone being hit that you can't see.

Take more care to ensure the BB's stay within your property, and if necessary sort something else out for testing guns. It's just not worth it.

Click to shrink...

I agree with this for guns testing there shpould be some other means. Try to keep your self away from trouble. Best of luck!

 

[Alexb111]

Talk to the local farmer (if your in the countryside), if not your local airsoft site.

See if they have a spare field with no public access (private land with permission away from public roads = legal). Use biodegradable bb's and take your rubbish/targets etc home. If they agree keep on good terms with them, a bottle of wine or a small gift once in a while will do you a world of good if something similar happens that my friend had:

A friend of mine got a visit by the police while shooting airsoft guns on private land. Apparently some people had walked through the field he was firing in and reported him resulting in 2 squad cars (4 officers) turning up within 15 minutes..

Anyway, long story short: The farmer came over and told them my friend had permission and if they try to press any charges against him he wants the people who came into his field charged for trespass, my friend was not doing anything illegal.

On topic: You have already broken the law and the police are investigating!

My advice is aside from skirmishing don't even take your gun out of its case for a month or two! If your seen with it outside the case the police may just end up putting 2 & 2 together and questioning you about the previous 2 incidents

Also posting it online, not the best idea even if you didn't know it was illegal at the time, post hypothetical questions instead of: I have done this, the police are asking questions. - Also when you put it like that it should be obvious its not legal anyway

Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law.