Imports on inactive UKARA

[MattCoops91]

Morning All,

I'm looking to get a new RIF from TG but as I haven't played for a while (about 2 years) and I'm starting up again i don't have my UKARA. I had it previously but it will have lapsed now. 

If I order from TG using my old UKARA number what's the likelihood it will get through customs? And if it doesn't will it be held until I can renew my UKARA or will it just get disposed of? 

I'm thinking the answer will be just to wait until I get my UKARA but curious if anyone else has experience of this. 

 

[L3wisD]

I'm thinking the answer will be just to wait until I get my UKARA

This is your safest bet.

It's not worth the risk if you buy anything particularly expensive and it gets destroyed.

I doubt they'd keep it for you until the ukara came in...

 

[MattCoops91]

Haha that maybe sounded a little nieve I meant does it go somewhere to be collected or anything like that or do you just get a call that what I've ordered has been destroyed.

 

[Tommikka]

Haha that maybe sounded a little nieve I meant does it go somewhere to be collected or anything like that or do you just get a call that what I've ordered has been destroyed.

If held at customs it would be held for a reasonable period until you justify the import.

3 months to get your UKARA status would not be reasonable - and if you tell them that you are not legal then they certainly won’t wait until you are

It would be destroyed or rejected and returned back to the sender

 

[Rogerborg]

Have you started playing again?

When I filed a FOI with Border Farce to ask how many UKARA checks they perform, their answer was that they don't know .  They literally have no record of whether any individual agent has performed fousands, few, or flip-all checks.

You could ask UKARA how many checks they've had done, but they're under no obligation to tell you (unless it's in direct reference to your own data).

We've had people say that parts are being impounded even with UKARA number, and RIFs let through without them.

It's a complete lottery, and entirely up to you how much risk you're willing to accept.

Me, I wouldn't do it unless I'd played once recently, and booked (and could show that I'd booked) another session.

Can you have the RIF sent to your local site?

 

[MattCoops91]

Can you have the RIF sent to your local site?

That's a great idea! 

Yeah I've played 2 games since Christmas but I'm a bit of a tourist I tend to play all over the place. When I got my UKARA a few years ago I played at the same site all the time. 

That's interesting about the FOI. To be honest I might just go to the same place for a while to get it. I have an AK i can use until I get it again but It's a pain in the arse. 

 

[Asomodai]

Morning All,

I'm looking to get a new RIF from TG but as I haven't played for a while (about 2 years) and I'm starting up again i don't have my UKARA. I had it previously but it will have lapsed now. 

If I order from TG using my old UKARA number what's the likelihood it will get through customs? And if it doesn't will it be held until I can renew my UKARA or will it just get disposed of? 

I'm thinking the answer will be just to wait until I get my UKARA but curious if anyone else has experience of this. 

My 1st hand experience is this last year.  

Batches of Parcels are checked at a random basis regardless of contents, the fact that a parcel has a UKARA number or not is irrelevant if its not found in a random check. 

The UKARA number DOES become relevant if a parcel containing a RIF is caught up in a random search by Border Force at one of the ports or airports. That is when it is seized and a seizure notice is sent to your address, you then ask them to check the UKARA number as a method of proving your defense to import in your initial response to the seizure. The UKARA number is then checked against the database by Border Force at Birmingham. If all is well they will tell the team that seized the RIF to release it into the UK parcel network.

BF are much hotter on RIF identification and procedures recently as it is part of their firearms/weapons importation training. 

Basically, if it does get picked up by BF in a random search then you will need that UKARA number. If it is not valid then it will seized and destroyed, and under the VCRA/Section 5 you will either be at a minimum fined a few thousand quid or even a custodial sentence. 

 

[Rogerborg]

If it's really the case that they won't proactively check the UKARA number until you ask them to, even if it's on the package, then I wouldn't want it on the package.

Why?  Because having it on there cannot help you, but it can harm you.

What if the seller puts the wrong number on there?

What if it takes so long to arrive or for them to contact you that your UKARA has expired, and you want or need to try some other defence? 

Changing the story about your defence, whether in fact or just in appearance, will not be helpful.

Better to wait for the random seizure and the notice, then give the defence that you want to give at that time.

Even if that's providing the same number that could have been on the package, it puts the choice and the situation more under your control.

 

[PureSilver]

I'm not so sure about that as a strategy.

Of all the guns my friends and I have imported - which must be substantially more than 100, I would have thought, by the time you go through all my various teammates - the only one that has ever been "seized" (I was told it's actually "detained" while they conduct enquiries, it's only "seized" if they're never going to give it to you) was a gun that was sent with a UKARA number but to an address that didn't match the number. Until @Asomodai's my gun was the only one I'd ever heard of being detained.

If they'll detain any gun they find during an inspection, that means that that parcel was the only one they'd inspected out of all 100+ parcels we've ever received and countless thousands of other ones. It would be a pretty big coincidence if the only parcel of ours that has ever been inspected was also the only one where the details were wrong.

If you wait for them to detain the gun and then get in touch, as @Asomodai will tell you (and as happened to my SVD) it is an absolute nightmare to extract it from them. It's difficult to get in touch with them, nobody you speak to seems to know anything, and the turnaround time between establishing that they have the gun, what they need from you to release it, who you send it to, them receiving it, them getting around to checking what you sent, and them releasing the gun is just glacial. My gun took something like 82 days to get to me.

 

[Rogerborg]

I'm not so sure about that as a strategy.

I should have bolded the "If it's really the case".  Maybe even leaned to the side a bit on the if.

No aspersions on @Asomodai, but given that Border Force doesn't even have a record of whether their agents have made any UKARA checks, I'd treat any statement about general policy, no matter how plausible and sincerely expressed, with considerable suspicion.

 

[ak2m4]

@Asomodai do you know this for sure?  Is it set policy / procedure? Did someone tell you about it?  Not trying to catch you out but just have never seen anything official and all the customs people I know that I've asked couldn't give a answer.  Does border force pay for access to UKARA I wonder..

 

[Asomodai]

@Asomodai do you know this for sure?  Is it set policy / procedure? Did someone tell you about it?  Not trying to catch you out but just have never seen anything official and all the customs people I know that I've asked couldn't give a answer.  Does border force pay for access to UKARA I wonder..

I can only told you exactly what they told me on the phone. The had confirmed my Ukara number and it was on it's way to me. 

I know they had extra training the week before it was released. I know that BF Birmingham was the one dealing with it. 

 

[Rogerborg]

 But just to be super clear, are you saying that they didn't check the UKARA number - even though it was on the package - until they'd sent you the notice and you'd responded and said "Dudes, check the UKARA number." ?

 

[Asomodai]

 But just to be super clear, are you saying that they didn't check the UKARA number - even though it was on the package - until they'd sent you the notice and you'd responded and said "Dudes, check the UKARA number." ?

Not 100% on what BF Dover did, they may have seen the UKARA number and didnt realise the significance or didnt have the ability to check the UKARA database, but seized the parcel for being on the import ban list. They transferred responsibility to BF Birmingham who deals with firearms. 

I rang BF Birmingham and I said that my UKARA number should be on the box which is a method of proving my defense to allow the importation to continue. I then gave my UKARA number to them. They got back to me saying that they have checked the number and are satisfied that I had proven my defense and that it would be released from Dover. 

 

[ak2m4]

Interesting that it was passed around.  Was this your Chinese rifle, did it ship from EU then?

 

[Asomodai]

Interesting that it was passed around.  Was this your Chinese rifle, did it ship from EU then?

Not 100% on this, but I dont think the rifle left Dover. It was inspected in Dover and seized. They then handed over responsibility and the appeal to Birmingham who had the firearms law training. 

The rifle was then released in Dover. 

It was shipped from within the EU. 

 

[Rogerborg]

Well, that's an unpleasant tale.

One thing that's started to bother me is that it seems that every courier in the UK, including PF48 now, explicitly say that they won't carry imitation firearms.

At any point, they could start knocking them back, especially if Border Force bring it to their attention.

 

[ak2m4]

Well, that's an unpleasant tale.

One thing that's started to bother me is that it seems that every courier in the UK, including PF48 now, explicitly say that they won't carry imitation firearms.

At any point, they could start knocking them back, especially if Border Force bring it to their attention.

I noticed this recently when trying to import 50kg of rails, upper and lower receivers and gearboxes.  I got knocked back from most of the major couriers apart from TNT.  

 

[L3wisD]

every courier in the UK, including PF48 now, explicitly say that they won't carry imitation firearms

Oh crap, when did that happen?

I get nervous about posting guns as it is!

 

[EDcase]

From Parcelforce website: https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sending/prohibitions-and-restrictions

I think 'imitation' and 'toy guns' is in the 'other than' section highlighted in red.

NOTE that it states at the top of the page: The below sets out the requirements that apply to Retail customers only.

Arms and Ammunition All firearms, other than low-powered air weapons sent within the UK (air rifles, air guns and air pistols), including imitations and antiques; paint-ball or toy guns; taser guns; components of firearms and all other items similar to, or resembling, the foregoing are prohibited. All ammunition other than lead pellets and other air gun and airsoft projectiles is also prohibited.

I have a couple of rifs on the way so it'll be interesting to see what company is used (IF they aren't seized)