barrel, hop, and rubber question

[Adolf Hamster]

opting for the lower speed motor is a choice, and a suggestion, based on the experience of destroying spur and pinion gears like rocks at sheets of A4 paper... it gets worse with nitro power... imagine a nitro powered airsoft minigun... ok im gonna end up on a tangent again ?

if my memory of nitro powered rc remains valid then i wouldn't be worried about a nitro powered minigun cos i can guarantee it'll stall only when the guy really needs it to be running.....

plus even if it worked you'd hear him coming a mile off.....

 

[ak2m4]

only warhead makes brushless motors

From what I can tell 1 (maybe 2) Chinese factories making brushless at the moment (not including Warhead).  Sold under different brands like Option, AOLS and Military Action.  All have CNC aluminium casings.  My guess they keep brushless production small to allow enough time to make as much money from non-brushless.  It will probably take a new player in the market with little or no non-brushless investment to shake things up.

At least 1 Taiwanese company also, I think ADV.  Check out ShinWei YT channel if your Mandarin is good enough ?  Although when I looked at these they looked extremely similar to the ones now being produced by ChiHai in China.  

 

[SoupyXo]

From what I can tell 1 (maybe 2) Chinese factories making brushless at the moment (not including Warhead).  Sold under different brands like Option, AOLS and Military Action.  All have CNC aluminium casings.  My guess they keep brushless production small to allow enough time to make as much money from non-brushless.  It will probably take a new player in the market with little or no non-brushless investment to shake things up.

At least 1 Taiwanese company also, I think ADV.  Check out ShinWei YT channel if your Mandarin is good enough ?  Although when I looked at these they looked extremely similar to the ones now being produced by ChiHai in China.  

i guess they're just not as advertised or known then, all i could find was warhead when i searched for airsoft brushless

 

[Skara]

Well you see more warhead motors because a) they're the new kid on the block and b) the other options are shit (Option no.1 motors are well known for shitting themselves and the other was a G&P motor I think that's literally impossible to find). The AliExpress brushless airsoft motors are just as expensive as a Warhead so I don't see the point of buying those.

I have two warheads, one of which is currently in Denmark for repairs as I snapped one of the tabs (they're giga flimsy and WH is aware of that).

I wish they were cheaper, especially for the performance increase I'm getting out of them compared to my €30 SHS HT brushed motors (1/2 extra RPS in full auto).

But I definitely do not fall under that 90% of airsofters I mentioned earlier, I'm part of that 10% who actually dicks around with guns and the even smaller percentage of people who don't really mind spending a small fortune (solely because I can afford it atm) on gun shaped toys.

W - - ?

Dis is going in my signature, and yes i'm a wanker at heart

 

[SoupyXo]

I wish they were cheaper, especially for the performance increase I'm getting out of them compared to my €30 SHS HT brushed motors (1/2 extra RPS in full auto).

But I definitely do not fall under that 90% of airsofters I mentioned earlier, I'm part of that 10% who actually dicks around with guns and the even smaller percentage of people who don't really mind spending a small fortune (solely because I can afford it atm) on gun shaped toys.

i don't mind spending a small fortune, but it has to be at least reasonably justifiable, say for example the kit i have so far, i can justify because i want to get to a site asap, and get my membership, which ill probably do on day 1 of going, for cheaper rates and access to the glory of non painted rif's... but £90 for a spinny boi that makes the pew go brrr at 20,000 rippums (or higher) with an 11.1v lipo, and does it a touch quieter than the brushed pile of shit that's in it now... cant justify that... not unless im doing a very nice build, which with no defence, i am not doing.... because vcra says im technically manufacturing imitation firearms by building one with no defence (fucking government) 

 

[Floperator]

i don't mind spending a small fortune, but it has to be at least reasonably justifiable, say for example the kit i have so far, i can justify because i want to get to a site asap, and get my membership, which ill probably do on day 1 of going, for cheaper rates and access to the glory of non painted rif's... but £90 for a spinny boi that makes the pew go brrr at 20,000 rippums (or higher) with an 11.1v lipo, and does it a touch quieter than the brushed pile of shit that's in it now... cant justify that... not unless im doing a very nice build, which with no defence, i am not doing.... because vcra says im technically manufacturing imitation firearms by building one with no defence (fucking government) 

UKARA is an ass-covering exercise for sellers with no real basis in law, it's not a defense for manufacture or possession. If it was then every airsofter would be breaking the law when their UKARA ran out.

If you're actively skirmishing, then you have a legitimate reason to possess or manufacture RIFs for that purpose.

 

[Rogerborg]

My guess they keep brushless production small to allow enough time to make as much money from non-brushless. 

Now, that makes sense: you always hunt the whales first.

I get that brushless performance is great, but 11.1V and <£30 of Big Dragon grinds my gears as fast as I'd care to risk them.  Bench tests might be satisfying, but the marginal extra field performance from brushless just isn't compelling for me at this point.

 

[Lozart]

it's incredibly sad that there isn't a standard platform for say an m4 base, which i guess is why the technology behind it hasn't really moved forward too much in a long time, and people are still using nimh's and brushed shite, as opposed to using extremely programmable electrics and brushless motors (sure, an AB++ is programmable, but it isn't as good as it could be, and the price for a warhead base motor is disgusting) 

Honestly, the main thing holding back innovation in airsoft is airsofters. This thread alone illustrates it beautifully - there are programmable mosfets on the market that have all the bells and whistles you could ever hope for but for every person that accepts that early adoption of new tech comes with a price tag, there are a hundred others saying that a T238 and a POS brushed motor does everything they want. Both approaches are valid and often determined by how much that person has (or is willing) to spend on toy guns but the one that is happy to spend always seems to get shouted down with cries of "why would you waste your money on that?" or "what's the point? A rental with a £100 gun can still get you" or "there's no way I would spend that much on XXXX". Great, bully for you. My money, my choice.

My main gun (of the 15 I own) is a SPecna with a Titan and Blu Link. The only reason it doesn't have a Warhead motor in it yet is because I want to see what the long term compatibility between their motors and that mosfet is (having already had to upgrade the motor twice - once because the Specna OEMN one was shite and then because the Titan ate the Rocket HT motor I put in to replace it; it's now running an Infinity 30K). Does it make me a better shot? No, of course not. Does it make me happy? Absolutely, and in this painfully short lifetime THAT is what we should be aiming for.

 

[Lozart]

when you're pitching it against something like an acuvance xarvis esc with a fledge 10.5t motor, tuned using a tao3, then no, its not really unreasonable but that's a lot of kit with a lot of brains.... now pitch it against lets say a toro t120a esc, with a speed passion v3 comp 10.5t, using a sky rc progbox which in all costs £130 and can do an immense amount of stuff for that price... a singular 20k rpm warhead motor, alone, as a BASE MODEL, being £90, and a mosfet thats ''decent'' like say a warfet, then having to pay for a tech top put it in because you may not be that technical, and your price is already at £157 with the mosfet and motor... yeah that's a touch unreasonable

I'd argue that you're not actually comparing like for like. The Warhead has the ESC built in to the housing, an RC motor is designed to run continuously not in VERY short burts so requires a different performance envelope and more importantly is still in its infancy in the airsoft market. RC and FPV motors can be cheaper because most of the tricky R&D has already been done and people already buy a lot of them. Add to that t he relative size of the RC and drone markets and it's pretty easy to see why airsoft brushless motors cost more. Warhead's parent company also make FPV motors and I can pretty much guarantee you that they're cheaper than a Warhead.

 

[Rogerborg]

UKARA is an ass-covering exercise for sellers with no real basis in law

It's the closest to one that sellers have got, although a Home Office circular phrased as little better than an opinion by some rando is very thin gruel.

 it's not a defense for [...] possession. If it was then every airsofter would be breaking the law when their UKARA ran out.

Er, purchase and private possession isn't an offence.  If you can get your hands on it, job done.

If you're actively skirmishing, then you have a legitimate reason to [...] manufacture RIFs for that purpose.

Or modify an IF into a RIF. Yup, and I'd argue that since the permitted activity is future use that having game days booked satisfies that intent more than having played in the past.

 

[Floperator]

It's the closest to one that sellers have got, although a Home Office circular phrased as little better than an opinion by some rando is very thin gruel.

UKARA was in all honesty a very very smart move at the time, pre-empting the HO and negating the need for them to create their own system. But its more a way of minimising the need for the law to get involved than a law itself.

And it seems to be working, I can't knock it for that.

Er, purchase and private possession isn't an offence.  If you can get your hands on it, job done.

Kind of my point, though I phrased it badly.

Or modify an IF into a RIF. Yup, and I'd argue that since the permitted activity is future use that having game days booked satisfies that intent more than having played in the past.

For sure, but say you find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to prove that intent at some point, it may be nice to be able to say Look I have a UKARA number or have a game day booked etc., but really you've either done something stupid or not, and if it's the former then having a number isn't going to help you. 

 

[SoupyXo]

The Warhead has the ESC built in to the housing, an RC motor is designed to run continuously not in VERY short burts so requires a different performance envelope and more importantly is still in its infancy in the airsoft market.

i didn't know the esc was built in to the can, there's barely any documentation or ''real'' specifications, because as someone mentioned in an earlier comment, people are scared they'll be copied

 

[Lozart]

i didn't know the esc was built in to the can, there's barely any documentation or ''real'' specifications, because as someone mentioned in an earlier comment, people are scared they'll be copied

There's a lot of marketing spiel on their website that shows an exploded view of the motor and mentions the built in ESC, but you're right there's precious little actual information about them. That said there's three parts of fuck all info available from ANY airsoft manufacturer about their motors (or anything else to be honest). I was actually looking for things like the Kv ratings to try and compare RC with airsoft to see if that might also highlight the cost disparity but as you rightly say, there's no info.

I think part of the problem is that most airsofters have zero clue about all this kind of stuff (my background is in controls and instrumentation so I have a base knowledge of motors and servos) and really don't care beyond "herp a derp, ARP goes BRRRRRR"!

 

[Rogerborg]

Could be down to objective reality versus perception.

With RC racing, you can't kid yourself that your toy is the fasterest ever when it gets left in the dust over and over.

With airsoft, every laser-shot out to 150m is definitely a hit, and it's just those OMG CHEETARS that keep your confirmed kill count down to numbers that humans can conceptualise.