POSSIBLE RIF BAN

[TacMaster]

I know the EU legislature can be incredibly frustrating at times, but hopefully this map will hopefully convince you - purely in economical terms - just what the EU allows us to do when it comes to competing in a global marketplace alongside the likes of China and the US: http://globe.cid.harvard.edu/ (click 'visualise the data').

That is an amazing tool, thanks for sharing this

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

And not wanting to get political but I agree with prof. We need to stay in Europe. I wouldnt want to cut my nose to spite my face.

Big problem is small to medium businesses are still getting stuffed and cant compete with the foreign market. Its not just China and other far east countries either Poland,Romania,Czech Republic just too name a few undercut our manufacturing prices hugely.

Until wages and the cost of living are leveled out across Europe then the whole union thing is crap.

Uk businesses still cant compete and the EU just treats us like piggy bank.

The UK is on a slippery slope and its not getting any better.

 

[K@rl]

Am sorry but our family has run a business in the uk for over 50+ years. And we still continue to grow.

So major brands Aston Martin, rolls all are reporting record export sales. 90% of f1 cars are built in the uk. I agree we can't offer the same value for money as other nations but lest not focus on what we can't do instead let's focus of the thing that we are great at.

To say we can't compete is total mis informed. There was call for the government to subsidise a steel factory a few months back. But why? If it isn't turning a profit close it and find a way to make money? Profit seems to be a dirty word in this country however anyone who runs any successful organisation will tell u they need to have a positive balance sheet.

The only people who apear to be unaware of this is politicians.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Am sorry but our family has run a business in the uk for over 50+ years. And we still continue to grow.

So major brands Aston Martin, rolls all are reporting record export sales. 90% of f1 cars are built in the uk. I agree we can't offer the same value for money as other nations but lest not focus on what we can't do instead let's focus of the thing that we are great at.

To say we can't compete is total mis informed. There was call for the government to subsidise a steel factory a few months back. But why? If it isn't turning a profit close it and find a way to make money? Profit seems to be a dirty word in this country however anyone who runs any successful organisation will tell u they need to have a positive balance sheet.

The only people who apear to be unaware of this is politicians.

Some businesses will still grow and best of luck to your family business. But the companies you mentioned are high end products which the UK has always been good at, but they are niche markets who employ a relatively small amount of people. General engineering and production has died down a lot. Some of the companies who survived the last couple of recessions can still report an ok turnover and a small amount of growth but it's not enough to really look to the future. The north has taken a kicking, the Midlands hasn't faired to well either and now the south is struggling. Britain has always been a country reliant on its industry and that is failing.Even our own armed forces and police are procuring more and more gear from abroad.

Biggest name in British defence technologies is probably Lockheed and they are American.

New nuclear power station is being propped by the chinese.

Most of the shops you walk into the fittings are made abroad and so are the goods on them.

Anybody who doesnt see the decline is lucky enough to stuck in a little oasis bubble or just blind to the real world.

Lots of new offices going up to provide admin for companies who make all their goods somewhere else. But not a lot else.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Anyway back onto topic.

I am sure at some point there will be more rules on owning rifs. A government database of registered players or even a licence.

Or to put it another way a stealth tax.

 

[K@rl]

seeing how u r talking directly about an area of business I have a great deal of knowledge and am based in Liverpool I feel well qualified to tell that the business that are failing are (as a whole) stuck in that past. We are stuck to the ideals and lack the ability to move with the times. Niche markets they may be however niche market often represent the highest yields. Our biggest problem by far in this country is the "why should i do it " attitude. In Bread scum bag families and the desire to get back as much as possible of as little effort in.

Y do we hoist people like joey Essex on a pillar when there are men and woman up and down the country who give so much.

If we all did a bit more and moaned a bit less about what's goin wrong we would finally be Great Britain again. It's what would have happened 60 years ago. No tax credits then, u wanted it u earned it!

 

[Esoterick]

Anyway back onto topic.

I am sure at some point there will be more rules on owning rifs. A government database of registered players or even a licence.

Or to put it another way a stealth tax.

In my mind the best solution would be a centralised database that has a register of us as players, plus the RIFs we own. However this would all come at a cost so the government would be unlikely to support it. Especially given the typical response to mentioning Airsoft to those unfamiliar with it seems to be people asking if the metal BBs are dangerous....

I can see why Airsofters react when any sort of legislation is brought up that might effect the hobby, because as I understand it when the VCRA was introduced the legislators weren't even aware it was a thing. Although to be fair they would have to spend up to half an hour gathering information on laws they are passing and that's a lot of effort

 

[K@rl]

Wouldnt cost if we all paid for it. Make it the law for us to all sign up to own rifs and say 5000 players paying ££50 a year plus £1000 from each site per year. Not sure how meny sites there are in the uk but turnover generated from players would be £250000. Then instead of all bitching about it we would have a real voice. Y do u think the rspb gets its own way all the time. There's somewhere to start.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Yep niche markets do represent big profits but for a small amount of people.

I agree with a lot of what your saying we do have a problem with people not wanting to get off their arses. But we have created a system that means a hard working man is quite often no better off than a dole scrounger.

Cost of living has gone up far faster than wages. I have always worked (in engineering) and always will but I can also see why some people struggle for incentive.

Too much wealth in too few pockets and very few of those pockets are on the hard working everyday man.

I am a firm believer that the guy picking up the litter is worth far more than the accountant signing his checks.

 

[K@rl]

Could not agree with u more. It is a problem we have brought on our selves. It may take things to get worse before they get betta. It's far to easy in this country. No job? Make them clean the steers for there money. Get arrest, no dole for u. Still breaking the law, two choice prison or the army. We need to take a harder line with these people. I total understand y u feel that way, it's seems that there is so much focus on keeping the lowest happy, y because the vote in great numbers. Middle Briton is always goin goin to bear the brunt because it represents the biggest pot of tax money to draw from.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Wouldnt cost if we all paid for it. Make it the law for us to all sign up to own rifs and say 5000 players paying ££50 a year plus £1000 from each site per year. Not sure how meny sites there are in the uk but turnover generated from players would be £250000. Then instead of all bitching about it we would have a real voice. Y do u think the rspb gets its own way all the time. There's somewhere to start.

Couple of problems with that. Most sites dont make huge profits. Quite a few people running them do it as a hobby and dont make much if anything out of it and still have to hold down a 9 to 5.A lot of players are students who struggle to afford to play regularly let alone pay a registration fee.

It would definitely help to have a more organised voice but once you start saying about people paying for it someone else whether it is the government or a private company is going to start saying how can they make money off it. Then it will get more and more expensive.

Needs something but dont think the solution is going to be a simple one.

 

[Esoterick]

Wouldnt cost if we all paid for it. Make it the law for us to all sign up to own rifs and say 5000 players paying ££50 a year plus £1000 from each site per year. Not sure how meny sites there are in the uk but turnover generated from players would be £250000. Then instead of all bitching about it we would have a real voice. Y do u think the rspb gets its own way all the time. There's somewhere to start.

The problem would lie in who manages it. The current system lets a select few retailers hold the power. If an independent party rocked up with the correct checks and balances in place to at least make them in line with how UKARA interprets the VCRA then I would be all for it. It is a lot of work though, both in setting up the system correctly and getting retailers onboard. Ideally said party would also have a decent spokesman to handle the vocal minority of mongs that might question them.

 

[Esoterick]

Couple of problems with that. Most sites dont make huge profits. Quite a few people running them do it as a hobby and dont make much if anything out of it and still have to hold down a 9 to 5.

A lot of players are students who struggle to afford to play regularly let alone pay a registration fee.

It would definitely help to have a more organised voice but once you start saying about people paying for it someone else whether it is the government or a private company is going to start saying how can they make money off it. Then it will get more and more expensive.

Needs something but dont think the solution is going to be a simple one.

That's the biggest problem, it's not just a case of finding someone to smash out a half decent database and another who has a card printer. It very much feels like a lot of Airsofters don't want to upset the status quo, and I can absolutely see why.

Edit: My multiquote skills leave much to be desired.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Ideally said party would also have a decent spokesman to handle the vocal minority of mongs that might question them.

Nobody off here then for spokesperson but plenty of takers for the mongs. ?

 

[K@rl]

Easily set up as not for profit. Would also likely get government grants.

Reduced rate for students? 50%.

Or a pay and play system. £1/2 per player per game.

Also set up an official escro body, let's call it pew pal, all rifs including air rifles would have to b sold using it. This way details could be tracked and £3 from each party would be taken.

I take the point that site struggle so let's make retailers pay a fee to be able to sell all rifs in the uk. £1000 per retailer and all would have to meet up to our codes of practice regarding honesty and relalistic performance.

Under 18s would join for free and still have to two tone there rifle but would still require registration.

And by gun sold to the public would have to be no greater than 50fps.

Happy to hear any objections, love a problem to solve.

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

I also read through that whole damn document just to be sure, and also found nothing affecting RIF whatsoever, the closest being what they call 'alarm weapons' that can be modified to be an actual firearm.

So another case of righteous hysteria... Just like all the muppets on facebook going on about the government taking their RIF from their dead-fingers after the police announced a voluntary amnesty for people to hand in guns and RIF...

If anything this means that all the fools leaving messages to this proposal about banning RIF being a bad idea, are just reminding them about RIF, and the only effect this could have is them realizing 'oh yeah we forgot RIF' and adding something against them...

 

[Sacarathe]

Under 18s would join for free and still have to two tone the rifle but would still require registration.

Not an objection, but you will never overturn this restriction. If anything the irresponsible should be charged more - same for anyone between 18 and 21.

 

[K@rl]

What restriction wouldn't b overturned?

I havnt read the whole thing but this is still a good idea. Would help to increase awearness of Airsoft and unite a very fragmented hobby.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Not an objection, but you will never overturn this restriction. If anything the irresponsible should be charged more - same for anyone between 18 and 21.

Have you ever actually been to skirmish?The most irresponsible players are usually late 20s to early 30s going through there I wish I was rambo phase. They are closely followed by the mid life life crisis group who are having one last stab at trying to be young.

The youngsters are usually the best behaved.

Anyway as Kurtz said above the whole topics a bust as not once is airsoft or airsoft weapons mentioned in the document.

 

[Yams]

The devil as always is in the details.

In Category C, the following points are added:
"5.
Alarm and signal weapons, salute and acoustic weapons as well as
replicas

That tiny parts at the very end is what would essentially screw airsoft as we know it. Under EU law a Cat C firearm is

Category C - Firearms subject to declaration

1. Repeating long firearms other than those listed in category B, point 6.

2. Long firearms with single-shot rifled barrels.

3. Semi-automatic long firearms other than those in category B, points 4 to 7.

[SIZE=12pt]4. Single-shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is not less than 28 cm.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]You are then almost certainly into serial numbers, shotgun certificate style registration and all the other limitations that buying/selling/owning real firearms places on people[/SIZE]