Sniper question for FPS

[Mos]

Hello,

So I play at two sites, tuddenham and ravens. They have different FPS limits for bolt action snipers.

Raven: 400

Tuddenham: 500

(With 0.2g)

Now, as originally I was going to play at tuddenham, as I didn't find ravens fun, I could've used 500 and I had an idea of how to set up my gun for tuddenhams 500 FPS limit.

BUT, I now find ravens equally as fun, and is only 10 mins away, compared to the 50 mins away, though the FPS limit at ravens is 400. 100 feet ps less.

Question I pose, is, will my sniper, at 400 FPS with 0.2g BBs be able to fire 0.4g BBs and get good hop up contact and receive the backspin it needs to be accurate and get the range.

Or will I need to change things, either use 0.3g BBs or 6.05 barrel etc. as I think I'd get like 280 FPS or so with 0.4g BBs. I don't want to cheat and change my FPS, so that's not an option.

Thanks.

 

[proffrink]

You will probably need to adjust your hop each time - 100ft/s is a fair amount. Thankfully you at least run an SDiK so getting the muzzle energy where it should be will be easy. I'd recommend making a small score mark in the adjustment knob thingy so you know where to set it for 500 and 400 respectively. Again though, the hop is a problem. I guess just set aside 5 minutes to dial it in again? Shouldn't take much longer as it's not like you're going from zero.

Still use the .40g.

 

[padraigthesniper]

If your hops good you should be fine with .4s you should still be out ranging the aeg peasants lol

 

[Sitting Duck]

Blimey - what is Raven's aeg limit - 250fps

I mean 400fps - 50fps over norm is hardly much

what's the MED then 30ft not 30m

My own site I think is 425fps on dmr to 450fps if they trust you to know true 30m MED

and 500fps max for bolt

But guess each site goes by its own rules - just 400 for BOLT is a bit low I feel even if aeg is 328

I mean 400 on .30 or .33 is about 500 on 0.20's I think

do they state 400 on 0.20's or is it 400 on sniper ammo

(though 400 on say .43 would pack some mofo punch)

 

[Mos]

You will probably need to adjust your hop each time - 100ft/s is a fair amount. Thankfully you at least run an SDiK so getting the muzzle energy where it should be will be easy. I'd recommend making a small score mark in the adjustment knob thingy so you know where to set it for 500 and 400 respectively. Again though, the hop is a problem. I guess just set aside 5 minutes to dial it in again? Shouldn't take much longer as it's not like you're going from zero.

Still use the .40g.

Yes, having the mancraft kit is useful, as I can change FPS without springs and whatnot. Ok, I see, I will have to change the hop dial each skirmish day. But that's no biggy, again, if I just go to the garage out in the suffolk farm land, I can do some experimenting..

But it isn't 400FPS with 0.4g BBs. It will be 400 FPS with 0.2, then I'd chuck in 0.4g BBs and the FPS would lower.

Therefore, are you still saying use 0.4 even if it only shoots 280 odd FPS? Surely it would not get the range. But then to counter that, you have the hop unit which can gain you that extra distance..

 

[Mos]

If your hops good you should be fine with .4s you should still be out ranging the aeg peasants lol

I wish I could like this more than once. Lol

Blimey - what is Raven's aeg limit - 250fps

I mean 400fps - 50fps over norm is hardly much

what's the MED then 30ft not 30m

My own site I think is 425fps on dmr to 450fps if they trust you to know true 30m MED

and 500fps max for bolt

But guess each site goes by its own rules - just 400 for BOLT is a bit low I feel even if aeg is 328

I mean 400 on .30 or .33 is about 500 on 0.20's I think

do they state 400 on 0.20's or is it 400 on sniper ammo

(though 400 on say .43 would pack some mofo punch)

I'll need to check the MED, as the rules seem quite, weak. As in, not allowed high power sniper.

If was shooting at 400 FPS with 0.2

And changed to 0.4 what would you think the FPS would now be. 300?

So. Looks like I may shoot 0.4g BBs at 300 FPS... Any objections? I have done the biro mod, so I should be able to lift the BBs. Just surely the BB needs a more force to push it, as it is heavier.

 

[proffrink]

Waitwaitwait. It seems we have to go back to basics here, Mos.

Use the heaviest weight you can lift with your hop unit. Heavier weights hold their inertia longer and won't drop off as quickly. Stick with the .40g.

You're shooting at 1.48J when you're going 400ft/s with a .20g; that'd be around 280ft/s with a .40g. As we know though, heavier weights will still go further for longer despite leaving the barrel at a lower speed because a heavier object will keep its inertia for longer - this goes for the backspin on the BB too, so it'll hold that hop longer in flight. This is how flywheels work - heavier weight; more efficient at turning for longer.

Get the notion of ft/s out of your head and work with muzzle energy. You want 1.48J for Ravens Croft and you'll want 2.32J for Gunman Tuddenham. Once again: Use the heaviest weight your hop unit can lift. This should be a .40g or more with the extra fiddling you've done.

Link to chart: http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll44/jomarx2/joule_fps_chart.jpg

And the golden rule: You cannot adjust your muzzle energy just by switching BB weights*. As all sites measure muzzle energy (but inexplicably display it as ft/s with a .20g for ease of reading for some people), you gotta work with your regulator to step up/down that muzzle energy depending on the site you're at.

They will crono you with .20g BBs and your muzzle energy will probably clock in at lower still than 1.48J or 2.32J (depending on the site) due to Joule creep. Do not then walk off and adjust your regulator to get yourself up to 1.48J with a .20g BB because then your heavier weight ammo is going to be shooting hot. Crono at home with .40g and let your crono come in at lower than it should. When switching down weights Joule creep will only go in the downwards direction, so you will only ever be shooting under the site limits, but should be bang on them when you switch to your regular ammo.

*Ok, Joule creep comes into play here but don't worry about that if you're croning properly at home with the weight you intend to use on the day.

high power sniper.

Monthly reminder:

 

[Sitting Duck]

I could understand if gun was 500fps on 0.2's

and they decided to chrono snipers on sniper ammo say .3 to .33 would "probably" show up as 400fps on 0.3/0.33's say

But said if people really took the pi$$ on 0.43/.45 ammo showing 400fps - that would be way over the 0.20 of 500fps energy and mofo ouch

But 400fps on 0.20's for bolt sniper - seems a tad low was what I meant

not knocking site and their rules - just sounded a little low especially a bolt sniper that can never spam on semi like a locked dmr

ok it can slam fire but no way could you light people up on bolts like dmr's so thought that is why they "usually" allow bolts a little more coz 1 shot only

no worries - I don't snipe (only on ebay) - so it don't matter to me anyway so I'll stfu for once

(yeah pretty rare I know)

Think the gun on the left is used to kill the yeti looking creature on the right - that is all I know

 

[proffrink]

Ravens Croft is a really small site, but I sort of agree. Given some of the games though you can expect pretty damn close engagement distances. Also about 1/4 of the site is such dense vegetation that you basically have to play around the outside of it, so shooting across the site rarely happens.

I wasn't crono'd a single time whilst playing there (even during my first games when I was completely new to the site and was using a GBBR). Not sure why, but they never did. That's why Mos should be extra careful, because I also happen to know that CO2 pistols - at the very least - are banned for constantly being hot when in the hands of idiots. As his VSR runs on CO2 (though properly regulated like any HPA gun would be) you can imagine the site owner wouldn't be best pleased if he's shooting hot too (and as he's there basically every game I'd imagine a ban would probably happen).

 

[Sitting Duck]

Ahhhh - soz I see now - did say each site to its own

Kudos to all who abide by sites limits etc...

(shouldn't really have to say that but we know some dicks don't always comply)

I go now - leaving with a little more understanding about the sniper bastids who keep picking me off from f*ck knows where....

 

[proffrink]

Aye. Hot guns were never a problem there, but I only played on and off for just under a year so yeh. Occasional non-hit taker but ultimately a lot of very good regulars because it was a small site that only usually had 30 people playing at a time, so it kind of had more of a community feeling to it what with it being the only one near Ipswich and if it became shit then we'd all just screwed ourselves over.

 

[Mos]

Waitwaitwait. It seems we have to go back to basics here, Mos.

Use the heaviest weight you can lift with your hop unit. Heavier weights hold their inertia longer and won't drop off as quickly. Stick with the .40g.

You're shooting at 1.48J when you're going 400ft/s with a .20g; that'd be around 280ft/s with a .40g. As we know though, heavier weights will still go further for longer despite leaving the barrel at a lower speed because a heavier object will keep its inertia for longer - this goes for the backspin on the BB too, so it'll hold that hop longer in flight. This is how flywheels work - heavier weight; more efficient at turning for longer.

Get the notion of ft/s out of your head and work with muzzle energy. You want 1.48J for Ravens Croft and you'll want 2.32J for Gunman Tuddenham. Once again: Use the heaviest weight your hop unit can lift. This should be a .40g or more with the extra fiddling you've done.

Link to chart: http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll44/jomarx2/joule_fps_chart.jpg

And the golden rule: You cannot adjust your muzzle energy just by switching BB weights*. As all sites measure muzzle energy (but inexplicably display it as ft/s with a .20g for ease of reading for some people), you gotta work with your regulator to step up/down that muzzle energy depending on the site you're at.

They will crono you with .20g BBs and your muzzle energy will probably clock in at lower still than 1.48J or 2.32J (depending on the site) due to Joule creep. Do not then walk off and adjust your regulator to get yourself up to 1.48J with a .20g BB because otherwise your heavier weight ammo is going to be shooting hot. Crono at home with .40g and let your crono come in at lower than it should. When switching down weights Joule creep will only go in the downwards direction, so you will only ever be shooting under the site limits, but should be bang on them when you switch to your regular ammo.

*Ok, Joule creep comes into play here but don't worry about that if you're croning properly at home with the weight you intend to use on the day.

Ok thanks. Yeah. I have learnt something new, heavier BBs keep their energy, thus going further. Because of air particles have less of a toll on the heavier weight.

So, 0.4g bb at 1.457 joules should be fine. Getting some nice, accurate shots, and a decent range. Then the hop setup for the extra range.

What range do you think I will get? With that setup above this sentence? With biro mod.

Yes, I realised they didn't crono guns, I was using my AEG CXP ICS thing, which was stock, and easily under the joule limi, wasn't hot. But I suppose if the marshal(s) got suspicious of someone, and then decided to crono the chap, and it turned out someone had a way too hot gun. I imagine he'd get banned, and bollocked by the marshals, as the site does rely on trust.

 

[proffrink]

Too many variables, but 60m quite easily. Up to 90m if you play your cards right.

 

[Mos]

Too many variables, but 60m quite easily. Up to 90m if you play your cards right.

Right. Awesome. Thanks again prof.

 

[Sacarathe]

I imagine he'd get banned, and bollocked by the marshals, as the site does rely on trust.

Is that trusting people to believe their guns are safe, or know their guns are safe?

 

[Mos]

Is that trusting people to believe their guns are safe, or know their guns are safe?

Well, everyone trusts everyone that their gun is not hot, so believing it. Though when someone seems suspicious, and gets crooned. Then we know.