Motor RPM losses.
- Thread starter Iceni
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
@ak2m4 I picked up a RA M110 when I got the gears and other parts. It'll get dropped in once I get chance.
I'm actually worried the motor might be a little much now and I have to start to mess it about to get it shooting within the limits, without having cycle issues.
Update:
Going off the fact @ak2m4 said it was am M120 spring, I took the M110 RA spring and cut 1.5 coils off it.
Chrono results
310fps on 0.25g. 1.12 Joules.
Absolute perfection.
TYVM for all the help on this thread.
The trigger response is now instant. And the gun is spitting 24rps.
@Sitting Duck Thank you.
I'm actually worried the motor might be a little much now and I have to start to mess it about to get it shooting within the limits, without having cycle issues.
Update:
Going off the fact @ak2m4 said it was am M120 spring, I took the M110 RA spring and cut 1.5 coils off it.
Chrono results
310fps on 0.25g. 1.12 Joules.
Absolute perfection.
TYVM for all the help on this thread.
The trigger response is now instant. And the gun is spitting 24rps.
@Sitting Duck Thank you.
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Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
- 4,894
- 1,735
AWESOME - cracking little build
you might have a smidge of overspin/pre-cocking still
so just use an old low juice battery to park the gun
(you knew that already)
FFS - just DON'T be tempted to try 11.1v
don't be a dick like moi - ooh I wonder.......
When you chuck in a 11.1v over a 7.4v you will be say 55% faster
maybe 60% if using a beefier 35c 11.1v over a 25c 7.4v
so you will be well past 36rps nudging 40rps and a UK gun even SS a few teeth won't save your rack ripping out
(or your 10 teeth on the bevel being smashed off when it all munches up at high speeds)
But yeah that 13:1 30k and maybe SS a couple of teeth is a cracking 7.4v build imho for us lot in UK
USA mofos with 420fps can push it more but us limeys need to keep it a bit more sensible
and that spec is a cracking little spec, very nice results for a reasonable investment imho
well done sir & ATB
you might have a smidge of overspin/pre-cocking still
so just use an old low juice battery to park the gun
(you knew that already)
FFS - just DON'T be tempted to try 11.1v
don't be a dick like moi - ooh I wonder.......
When you chuck in a 11.1v over a 7.4v you will be say 55% faster
maybe 60% if using a beefier 35c 11.1v over a 25c 7.4v
so you will be well past 36rps nudging 40rps and a UK gun even SS a few teeth won't save your rack ripping out
(or your 10 teeth on the bevel being smashed off when it all munches up at high speeds)
But yeah that 13:1 30k and maybe SS a couple of teeth is a cracking 7.4v build imho for us lot in UK
USA mofos with 420fps can push it more but us limeys need to keep it a bit more sensible
and that spec is a cracking little spec, very nice results for a reasonable investment imho
well done sir & ATB
- Thread starter
- #24
I don't own any 11.1v batteries! Never felt the urge. The stock is big enough that I can use my standard 7.4v blocks. 7.4v 35c 2200mAh.
https://www.componentshop.co.uk/7-4v-2200mah-35c-continuous-discharge-lipo-battery.html
Beasts. 150A burst. It'll never be stressed. I've been running those and the Vapex 30c version pretty much since I started airsoft. I've tested others and 11.1v but they just seem to work well for me.
I was sceptical at first. I'd not done any gear ratio modification. Now it's done and I can see the workload involved and the costs it's hard not to make the recommendation. I also run a fast 18:1 build and the 13:1 seems smoother, quieter, and more controlled. There is significantly less overspin on the 13:1 set and the gearbox stops dead every time.
My shooting partner used to work for Armex doing the Umarex gun tech work. He's that impressed with the overall build that he went and got a 13:1 set for his 416. His motor is different (rewound ifrit frankentorque) but on 11.1v he's getting close to 30rps. For all his gun tech knowledge and it's extensive he'd never touched ratio's either, favouring motors, and HPA rigs for RPS gains. The 416 was previously running 18:1 helical gears.
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
- 4,894
- 1,735
Ya m8 is probably on about 28rps ish with a smidge more overspin unless he runs AB
with the original ifrit being 25k he'd be well over 30rps on 11.1v and I'd say whoa easy now
The annoying this is, we was aware of so many others saying nope to ultra fast motors
and rating steady torque or balanced motors with 13:1's instead
If/when you test the amps it draws not much more than a so-so shimmed stock gun out of box but so outperforms it
you don't even need to test the amps - you can feel the motor is cooler when spamming like fuck
(compared to the higher speed motors running much warmer)
my only regret is that I bought quite a few fast motors instead of heeding sound advice
only to find out that yup - I should have listened to others a bit more
ah well - I learnt quite a bit from my numerous & costly balls up
with the original ifrit being 25k he'd be well over 30rps on 11.1v and I'd say whoa easy now
The annoying this is, we was aware of so many others saying nope to ultra fast motors
and rating steady torque or balanced motors with 13:1's instead
If/when you test the amps it draws not much more than a so-so shimmed stock gun out of box but so outperforms it
you don't even need to test the amps - you can feel the motor is cooler when spamming like fuck
(compared to the higher speed motors running much warmer)
my only regret is that I bought quite a few fast motors instead of heeding sound advice
only to find out that yup - I should have listened to others a bit more
ah well - I learnt quite a bit from my numerous & costly balls up
IntelligentCelestialBeing
Members
- Jun 6, 2019
- 28
- 0
Please do correct me if im wrong. But from what I understand is that you want to see if your mathematics for calculating losses to RPMs after a load is put onto the motor is correct ?
Cant you test your results with a spectre fet? Im sure you can purchase a Bluetooth spectre fet which gives you infotmation about the RPMs of your weapon system. Surely then can see how accurate your results are and surely you can get more accurate results but putting the information you get from the spectre fet upagainst rpms of a motor without the load.
i could have misunderstood you and i could also be wrong. But from my knowledge a spectre fet tells you details of your rifles performance on your smartphone and if this is the case it would tell you your rifles performance when the load is put onto the motor. So using that info and putting it up against the info of the rpms on the motor when no load is on it you can come up with a more accurate percentage of losses and you can also see if your mathematics make a good basic outline for losses to a system
just thinking out load ?
- Thread starter
- #27
The math is only a part of it.
What I actually wanted to know was the correct way to select a motor for a particular gearing. How brands or motor differ in efficiency, and what the total losses would look like in a real world gearbox.
The math is actually just a method of comparison, so I can see the differences in the builds. It is in no way a method to estimate losses as a gearbox build can significantly alter how well a motor performs. The % mark is just a reference, It can't be used to make an estimate of an unknown motor.
The results are only really applicable to someone that can build a gearbox to the standards of the people that posted. I'm pretty confident my gearbox rebuilding is close to Prisce and SittingDuck standards. Your mileage may vary as there are a lot of variables in gearbox rebuilding, and friction can have a significant effect on speeds. As too can a poor airseal, As some guns run @350fps with poor seals, but the gearbox does a lot more work, with greater losses and lower consistency to get there.
Most Chrono's can do RPS. It's just a case of shooting a burst through one. There's no need to have a special fet to be able to test this. If you ask the marshal when you chrono before game they might let you check the RPS.
It's also only the loaded speed I was interested in. The no-load speed is irrelevant as we always have load on the gearboxes. How much load is also important hence the FPS request as well.
The question you ask is often more important than the results. I could of asked what motor is best for a 13:1 gearset? More people would of had an opinion, but I would still not be in a situation to make an educated choice for myself. Asking a different question stopped the answers been I have X it works well.
Imtriggerhappy was spot on with his assessment of the question been pointless. It is. There are no rules that can give a solid formula to work out losses.
ImTriggerHappy
Supporters
- Feb 25, 2015
- 5,374
- 2,228
That is because I have many an hour staring at a gun I just built wondering where those numbers came from.
I built 12 identical G&P guns a while ago changed everything internally just kept the receivers. They all had identical parts and were built exactly the same but each one threw out different numbers. Only a small difference gun to gun but across all 12 a huge difference.
Only reason that could be is airsoft parts tolerances are sketchy at best so even from the same manufacturer there are differences.
@IntelligentCelestialBeing if you interested in high end fet/etu combos forget the Spectre and get a Titan.
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IntelligentCelestialBeing
Members
- Jun 6, 2019
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S
Sabret00th
Guest
Hi there everyone!
Interesting thread here.
I have a noob question.
I bought a
https://www.airsoftstation.com/g-g-top-tech-raider-xl-ris-electric-blowback-metal-airsoft-rifle/
18:1 V2 gearbox and M100 sprint inside.
I wanted to tune it for more precision. It has Dean connectors now.
I bought an ASG u-35000 motor.
What spring do you guys recommend, and do I have to touch the gear ratio?
I'm as said for precision, but ofc I want the internals to last and get some nice trigger response. I will do all the things like radiusing, sorbo and so on ofc but this gear ratio and spring thing is giving me headache's. 500 fps limit, so no worries about it being to strong.
Interesting thread here.
I have a noob question.
I bought a
https://www.airsoftstation.com/g-g-top-tech-raider-xl-ris-electric-blowback-metal-airsoft-rifle/
18:1 V2 gearbox and M100 sprint inside.
I wanted to tune it for more precision. It has Dean connectors now.
I bought an ASG u-35000 motor.
What spring do you guys recommend, and do I have to touch the gear ratio?
I'm as said for precision, but ofc I want the internals to last and get some nice trigger response. I will do all the things like radiusing, sorbo and so on ofc but this gear ratio and spring thing is giving me headache's. 500 fps limit, so no worries about it being to strong.
Sabret00th
Members
- Sep 3, 2019
- 1
- 0
Hi there everyone!
Interesting thread here.
I have a noob question.
I bought a
https://www.airsoftstation.com/g-g-top-tech-raider-xl-ris-electric-blowback-metal-airsoft-rifle/
18:1 V2 gearbox and M100 sprint inside and 11.1V lipo.
I wanted to tune it for more precision and reach. Its upgraded with Dean connectors now.
I bought an ASG u-35000 motor.
What spring do you guys recommend, and do I have to touch the gear ratio?
I'm as said for precision and power, but ofc I want the internals to last and get some nice trigger response. I will do all the things like radiusing, sorbo and so on ofc but this gear ratio and spring thing is giving me headache's. 500 fps limit, so no worries about it being to strong.
Thanks in advance
Interesting thread here.
I have a noob question.
I bought a
https://www.airsoftstation.com/g-g-top-tech-raider-xl-ris-electric-blowback-metal-airsoft-rifle/
18:1 V2 gearbox and M100 sprint inside and 11.1V lipo.
I wanted to tune it for more precision and reach. Its upgraded with Dean connectors now.
I bought an ASG u-35000 motor.
What spring do you guys recommend, and do I have to touch the gear ratio?
I'm as said for precision and power, but ofc I want the internals to last and get some nice trigger response. I will do all the things like radiusing, sorbo and so on ofc but this gear ratio and spring thing is giving me headache's. 500 fps limit, so no worries about it being to strong.
Thanks in advance
