CommonComrade
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Thinking of making my M4 into a DMR and I'm not sure where to start, internally or externally?
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M4 DMR, where to start?
- Thread starter CommonComrade
- Start date
TacMaster
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- Dec 3, 2012
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The only difference between an AEG and a DMR is the internal spec. It doesn't matter about how the gun looks at all.
If you're thinking about barrel length, it really doesn't make a difference unless you reduce it below the standard M4 barrel size- you can get DMR performance with anything over 363mm in length. Barrel diameter is a different story, a 6.01 or 6.02mm TBB is the best to use in a DMR setup.
Internals wise, here's what I've got in my M27:
Prometheus TBB w/R-Hop and Maple Leaf rubber
SHS Gears
SHS Hi-Torque motor
Lonex compression parts
Air-Lab Sorbo Pad to correct AOE
Prometheus M120 Spring
Nano Gate AB Mosfet
It's also been locked to semi via the selector plate. Currently kicking out at 415-420 FPS on 0.2gs.
This setup gives me really nice trigger response- not extremely important, but it feels and operates much nicer than a standard AEG- I can really feel the difference when I leave the safe zone with a normal AEG!
If you're thinking about barrel length, it really doesn't make a difference unless you reduce it below the standard M4 barrel size- you can get DMR performance with anything over 363mm in length. Barrel diameter is a different story, a 6.01 or 6.02mm TBB is the best to use in a DMR setup.
Internals wise, here's what I've got in my M27:
Prometheus TBB w/R-Hop and Maple Leaf rubber
SHS Gears
SHS Hi-Torque motor
Lonex compression parts
Air-Lab Sorbo Pad to correct AOE
Prometheus M120 Spring
Nano Gate AB Mosfet
It's also been locked to semi via the selector plate. Currently kicking out at 415-420 FPS on 0.2gs.
This setup gives me really nice trigger response- not extremely important, but it feels and operates much nicer than a standard AEG- I can really feel the difference when I leave the safe zone with a normal AEG!
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Samurai
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Airsoft_Mr B
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^ Was gonna link the same thing...it seems like so much work though. I guess that's what you gotta do if you're serious about having a good performer.
Seriously wish some company would actually implement modifications like these into stock guns but it'd be ridiculously expensive if they're only making them to satisfy a niche
And yeah externals mean nowt - all these DMR guns (e.g. G&G GR25) are just normal AEGs!! Nothing special about them at all really, all aesthetics.
I don't know much on this area but I'd suggest looking at P&J rifles from TaiwanGun, re-branded A&K ARs / SR-25s and all only around £150.
I've heard it's easier to do with a GBBR and it's something I'd thought of trying with a Tippmann M4 (given it's a 'affordable' alternative to a P* or SMP) but with the proprietary hop etc it seems unlikely.
If it is entirely possible to get it to a decent standard just changing parts then you want the best quality barrel (Prometheus afaik) you can get as opposed to length and a good hop.
And heavier BBs of course. Probably 0.28-0.30, anything above would be too heavy? 0.20s, 0.23, 0.25 is normal weight for AEG users
Seriously wish some company would actually implement modifications like these into stock guns but it'd be ridiculously expensive if they're only making them to satisfy a niche
And yeah externals mean nowt - all these DMR guns (e.g. G&G GR25) are just normal AEGs!! Nothing special about them at all really, all aesthetics.
I don't know much on this area but I'd suggest looking at P&J rifles from TaiwanGun, re-branded A&K ARs / SR-25s and all only around £150.
I've heard it's easier to do with a GBBR and it's something I'd thought of trying with a Tippmann M4 (given it's a 'affordable' alternative to a P* or SMP) but with the proprietary hop etc it seems unlikely.
If it is entirely possible to get it to a decent standard just changing parts then you want the best quality barrel (Prometheus afaik) you can get as opposed to length and a good hop.
And heavier BBs of course. Probably 0.28-0.30, anything above would be too heavy? 0.20s, 0.23, 0.25 is normal weight for AEG users
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CommonComrade
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I was looking at TaiwanGun. Though I don't have UKARA so that's a problem.
Mr Monkey Nuts
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I am going to have to respectfully contradict almost everything Tacmaster has said. In the Airsoft world a DMR is entirely about the aesthetics of the gun, and it's real world emulation.
Other than breaking 350fps there is no internal upgrade you can do to a DMR that cannot also be done to any other v2 based gun such as a 10inch mk18.
A real world DMR is a semi auto rifle that has a minimum of an 18inch match grade barrel and a free floating rail.
An m4 with a scope isn't a DMR, an M4 with a scope is a very usable gun for Airsoft, but it's not strictly a DMR.
If you really do want to go down that route the US m4 derived DMR is the Mk12, google it and go from there.
The mk12 uses the NATO 5.56 round.
The SR25 uses a 7.62 round, and is not an M4 and the Russian SVD is also a DMR.
Having spent a lot of money and time building a mk12 impression I can honestly say it's more of a hindrance to have a DMR than it is to just have a good aeg with a scope.
It's heavy, it's long, it's temperamental, the loss of full auto for suppression isn't worth the extra few FPS and at the end of it all, it shoots just as accurately wether it has the 480mm barrel or a
250mm barrel.
Just my 2c
Other than breaking 350fps there is no internal upgrade you can do to a DMR that cannot also be done to any other v2 based gun such as a 10inch mk18.
A real world DMR is a semi auto rifle that has a minimum of an 18inch match grade barrel and a free floating rail.
An m4 with a scope isn't a DMR, an M4 with a scope is a very usable gun for Airsoft, but it's not strictly a DMR.
If you really do want to go down that route the US m4 derived DMR is the Mk12, google it and go from there.
The mk12 uses the NATO 5.56 round.
The SR25 uses a 7.62 round, and is not an M4 and the Russian SVD is also a DMR.
Having spent a lot of money and time building a mk12 impression I can honestly say it's more of a hindrance to have a DMR than it is to just have a good aeg with a scope.
It's heavy, it's long, it's temperamental, the loss of full auto for suppression isn't worth the extra few FPS and at the end of it all, it shoots just as accurately wether it has the 480mm barrel or a
250mm barrel.
Just my 2c
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AK47frizzle
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- Apr 5, 2013
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How to make any gun into a DMR:
Increase barrel length
Increase fps
Add lots of fancy furniture and unnecessarily high magnification scopes so that people might come to the conclusion that your gun, is not any old regular aeg fart; they'll know... You've upgraded to DMR... (~.~)
Increase barrel length
Increase fps
Add lots of fancy furniture and unnecessarily high magnification scopes so that people might come to the conclusion that your gun, is not any old regular aeg fart; they'll know... You've upgraded to DMR... (~.~)
Colonel Kurtz
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- Jan 19, 2015
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I thought in airsoft DMR meant Dump Money Rifle and it's just what you call your AEG after you've compulsively bought every after-market part and accessory you can find to make it sound more serious?!
Nothing wrong with that of course, tinkering is half the fun! Do consider the notion of 'DMR' being a separate genre of airsoft gun a bit hilarious though
To the OP -
To pose the question suggests a bit of inexperience, every 'upgrade' you make will have a minuscule effect you wont be able to notice outside of a laboratory testing ground. A passing bird farting will affect the BB trajectory more than anything you can do to an AEG, people forget it's only pushing a 6mm plastic ball out of a tube!
The dark-art seems to be gaining a full appreciation of everything you can do to an AEG and finding that sweet spot of balance between the components, even appreciating what that sweet spot is will take much experience in building AEG of various makes/models. (don't get me wrong, I haven't found it!) It's got to be a significant % of AEG that have a few internal components swapped by the owner and end up performing worse as the balance has been disturbed.
I would recommend just swapping the inner barrel for a tight-bore one and see how that goes. If you have trouble getting the hop-up unit functioning sweet after swap then a gearbox aint what you wanna be opening. If it's a piece of piss and you feel a noticeable difference then maybe consider the other stuff listed in the linked sniper-guide.
Maybe i'm underestimating your abilities a bit, but its good to be cautious with your AEG and your pic is Karl Pilkington
Nothing wrong with that of course, tinkering is half the fun! Do consider the notion of 'DMR' being a separate genre of airsoft gun a bit hilarious though
To the OP -
To pose the question suggests a bit of inexperience, every 'upgrade' you make will have a minuscule effect you wont be able to notice outside of a laboratory testing ground. A passing bird farting will affect the BB trajectory more than anything you can do to an AEG, people forget it's only pushing a 6mm plastic ball out of a tube!
The dark-art seems to be gaining a full appreciation of everything you can do to an AEG and finding that sweet spot of balance between the components, even appreciating what that sweet spot is will take much experience in building AEG of various makes/models. (don't get me wrong, I haven't found it!) It's got to be a significant % of AEG that have a few internal components swapped by the owner and end up performing worse as the balance has been disturbed.
I would recommend just swapping the inner barrel for a tight-bore one and see how that goes. If you have trouble getting the hop-up unit functioning sweet after swap then a gearbox aint what you wanna be opening. If it's a piece of piss and you feel a noticeable difference then maybe consider the other stuff listed in the linked sniper-guide.
Maybe i'm underestimating your abilities a bit, but its good to be cautious with your AEG and your pic is Karl Pilkington
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DEDSEC
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- Jun 2, 2014
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I personality think making any 5.56 "DMR" is wrong but that's just my opinion. If you want it to look the part you'd need to start with a base replicating a real steel gun chambered in 7.62 or higher. To me, throwing a scope and a bipod on an AR-15 isn't really a DMR, it's more of an...AR-15 with a scope and a bipod...
Hey-ho it's just a hobby though so do as you wish!
Hey-ho it's just a hobby though so do as you wish!
Lozart
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Mr Monkey Nuts
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Using 5.56 is the entire reason the term DMRs exist, if your going to use a 7.62 accurately out past 400m you may as well just take a bolt action rifle. a soldiers 5.56 weapon will do everything else up and possibly past, that range.
In close built up areas such as Iraq, a full length "long" rifle is rarely an efficient weapon.
The mk12 replaces both the BAR and and gives a sniper ranged shots as well as the ability to clear building, suppress with full auto and generally operate as a forward infantry member without having to lug multiple guns.
In close built up areas such as Iraq, a full length "long" rifle is rarely an efficient weapon.
The mk12 replaces both the BAR and and gives a sniper ranged shots as well as the ability to clear building, suppress with full auto and generally operate as a forward infantry member without having to lug multiple guns.
Sitting Duck
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- May 11, 2014
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sod it buy another gun, try sniping with a cheap AK SVD or MB06 or something....
Guns: G&G CM16 Carbine, Bulldog B500A1 - leave G&G alone - it is a good gun - if range is issue get it sorted
Bulldog B500A1 - well yeah I like a challenge but don't think I would bother with upgrades on that - except a fresh battery
See if you can get into snipining or "DM" role, single shot MED hanging back and no longer "steamin' in", say mp5k as secondary
Then if you feel you might like the more "supportive" role and feel yeah I can get into this.....
Then look into getting a more "suitable" looking rifle perhaps ????
Many people "think" they wanna try this or build that - DMR - DSG - Sniper - TM GBB pistol - HAS TO BE FULL METAL - blah blah blah
Often though they find their first initial thoughts of what they need/want/must have - 6~12 months later they have changed their minds
I'd test the water a little bit first before you start ripping apart a good starter gun when you may not like/need to
Guns: G&G CM16 Carbine, Bulldog B500A1 - leave G&G alone - it is a good gun - if range is issue get it sorted
Bulldog B500A1 - well yeah I like a challenge but don't think I would bother with upgrades on that - except a fresh battery
See if you can get into snipining or "DM" role, single shot MED hanging back and no longer "steamin' in", say mp5k as secondary
Then if you feel you might like the more "supportive" role and feel yeah I can get into this.....
Then look into getting a more "suitable" looking rifle perhaps ????
Many people "think" they wanna try this or build that - DMR - DSG - Sniper - TM GBB pistol - HAS TO BE FULL METAL - blah blah blah
Often though they find their first initial thoughts of what they need/want/must have - 6~12 months later they have changed their minds
I'd test the water a little bit first before you start ripping apart a good starter gun when you may not like/need to
Lozart
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As SD is trying to say if by "my M4" you mean the Bulldog, then yeah - don't bother. It's not worth attempting to upgrade to anything let alone a DMR platform.
Sitting Duck
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I was referring to G&G - lol, I might have a play with my B500A1 one day if I got REALLY bored
But though OP could turn the 363mm carbine into a DMR gun - performance wise
I think there is a chance he may find himself converting it back to a decent starter aeg.
If the G&G isn't shooting too great - give a little service/TLC and it should perform better and find he has better range/accuracy & forget DMR
I often think I might give it go - but still as of yet I enjoy getting stuck in (sitting in dead zone mainly)
but running around sweating my nutz off, screaming like a girl, tripping ar$e over tit through bushes/stumps,
getting covered in crap/cuts, shot by own team ffs = seems to be the fun bit for me anyway
But though OP could turn the 363mm carbine into a DMR gun - performance wise
I think there is a chance he may find himself converting it back to a decent starter aeg.
If the G&G isn't shooting too great - give a little service/TLC and it should perform better and find he has better range/accuracy & forget DMR
I often think I might give it go - but still as of yet I enjoy getting stuck in (sitting in dead zone mainly)
but running around sweating my nutz off, screaming like a girl, tripping ar$e over tit through bushes/stumps,
getting covered in crap/cuts, shot by own team ffs = seems to be the fun bit for me anyway
DEDSEC
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- Jun 2, 2014
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Think that thing is utter shite and completely useless as a real steel. Not to mention how measly the gun looks using AR-15 magazines. The 5.56 round has little to none stopping power to lightly armoured targets compared to a 7.62 or a .308, or a .300 round. So how anyone could say "let's make a 5.56 DMR!" is beyond me.
It's like firing a nerf dart at the Terminator.
Sitting Duck
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- May 11, 2014
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I actually rather like it, looks the part to me but I'm no expert on the real thing
but normal v2 box - up to say 465/470 barrel.
rather than go down the custom 25 v2 box with its longer piston/cylinder/sector
understand it just would look wrong with a 300+ hi cap on there though, spoils the look
full fixed stock or crane - hmmm not sure might change full size to stubby but doubt if that would look right
Deffo looks like the DMR part to this noob, more rail space to fill with almost any extra you will need
(and add to the weight when you try to pick her up & leg it)
but normal v2 box - up to say 465/470 barrel.
rather than go down the custom 25 v2 box with its longer piston/cylinder/sector
understand it just would look wrong with a 300+ hi cap on there though, spoils the look
full fixed stock or crane - hmmm not sure might change full size to stubby but doubt if that would look right
Deffo looks like the DMR part to this noob, more rail space to fill with almost any extra you will need
(and add to the weight when you try to pick her up & leg it)
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